Triggut Frap, grey or black? (give evidence, no character lists)

[W0NWILL]

I personally think he's grey. He only enslaved the beasts because he felt they owed him, he kept the mousebabe and Calla and Urfa captive so the others would stay in line. He was only thinking of himself.

[Lutra]

This is one I felt is very much cut-and-dry....Truggut isn't a nice character, and doesn't seem to have any gray qualities.  He enslaved the young ones, clearly knowing what he was doing, pretty much forcing them to work for him and build him a house.  They couldn't leave the island.  I'd call this slavery--holding one against ones will in ##:1162--and as such, he is a black character.  Just because some may say "he's owed something" doesn't make it right.   He wasn't written with gray intentions like other characters clearly have been.  He's no Veil, whom you could say had more good in him than this hedgehog.

[Redwallfan7]

This is one I felt is very much cut-and-dry....Truggut isn't a nice character, and doesn't seem to have any gray qualities.  He enslaved the young ones, clearly knowing what he was doing, pretty much forcing them to work for him and build him a house.  They couldn't leave the island.  I'd call this slavery--holding one against ones will in ##:1162--and as such, he is a black character.  Just because some may say "he's owed something" doesn't make it right.   He wasn't written with gray intentions like other characters clearly have been.  He's no Veil, whom you could say had more good in him than this hedgehog.

So, a gray character can have both good and evil qualities right?

[psybox]

by definition, a gray character has both good and evil qualities.  Redwall fans just have a custom definition.

[Redwallfan7]

by definition, a gray character has both good and evil qualities.  Redwall fans just have a custom definition.

well, then, what's the custom definition?

[psybox]

good vermin or evil woodlanders.

[Tiria Wildlough]

Well, the custom definition would be incorrect. A grey character is one who is a bit bad and a bit good.

[Redwallfan7]

So, isn't there a bit of gray in everyone, then? Because everyone can act good or bad.

[Flandor]

Gray is a bit of good and bad, as Tiria said.  Blaggut was good.  Romsca was gray, but did seriously redeem herself in her final days.  Veil was gray.  A lot of the voles were gray.  

In real life, people are all mostly gray.  Redwall is a bit more cut and dry, and thus a bit less realistic in that regard.

Triggut was definitely black.  He was clearly insane, but insanity doesn't excuse him from being completely evil in my book.  He enslaved the young beasts, and threatened to have them murdered more than once.  He willingly would've caused them harm.  That makes him bad, whatever his sanity was.

[Redwallfan7]

Gray is a bit of good and bad, as Tiria said.  Blaggut was good.  Romsca was gray, but did seriously redeem herself in her final days.  Veil was gray.  A lot of the voles were gray. 

In real life, people are all mostly gray.  Redwall is a bit more cut and dry, and thus a bit less realistic in that regard.

Triggut was definitely black.  He was clearly insane, but insanity doesn't excuse him from being completely evil in my book.  He enslaved the young beasts, and threatened to have them murdered more than once.  He willingly would've caused them harm.  That makes him bad, whatever his sanity was.

I have a very low opinion of Triggut. He has evil qualities in my pov.

[The Shade]

Yeah, so do I.

[Tam and Martin]

I voted Black. I didn't like him and he seemed evil to me.

[The Shade]

Aye.

[Shadowed One]

Black.

[Ungatt Trunn]

Refresh my memory: Who was Triggut Frap?