Poll
Question:
Favorite Bow and Arrow
Option 1: Grath
votes: 13
Option 2: Samkin
votes: 8
Option 3: Lonna
votes: 21
Option 4: Inbar
votes: 1
I think it was Grath Longfletch.
me too!
Lonna Bowstripe. Grath was very good, but Lonna had a clear advantage due to his size and strength, which enabled him to have a more powerful bow.
I would say Lonna would be first followed by Grath.
Lonna definately, Grath was good but Lonna had more power so his shots caused more damage, also for some reason i think Iris was more skilled with a bow then Grath.
Grath
Samkim, all the others had size advantages. :P
Cregga! (and Songbreezes grandma!) little foxy had no chance!
Nuh uh, Samkim was wayyyyyy better. Any of them could hit a fox but who can strike the center of an apple? Samkim!
Lonna could hit a piece of wood at a great distance, not to mention the fact that he knew how to adjust the angle of his bow in order to hit targets much further away, but still maintained his accuracy.
Might I add that Loamhedge came AFTER Salamandastron? (the books) Jaques had more experiance with the treatment of bows the more he used, and Lonna had a HUGE size advantage. One more thing, Samkim could shoot an apple from a great distance SPOT ON A piece of drift wood would be MUCH larger than a russet!
Quote from: MatthiasMan on April 04, 2012, 12:21:57 AM
I think it was Grath Longfletch.
I think it is a tie between her and er, I think it was Queen Amber, she was in mossflower and Legend of Luke, oh I forget. Can I get some help please! :-\
Yes she was in those two books... But that doesn't change the fact that Samkim could shoot better than any! ;D
Quote from: danflorreguba on April 04, 2012, 09:07:18 PM
Yes she was in those two books... But that doesn't change the fact that Samkim could shoot better than any! ;D
the only issue i have with Samkim is his weapon of choice was the sword of martin the warrior, much like Matthias in redwall used a staff to begin with... as far as i can recall he didn't take his archery equiptment with into battle. also we as a communtiy are forgetting two archers Doomeye (ripfangs brother) and Valluge Bowbeast (from Tanggerung) Valluge is said to have been able to his a moving dragonfly... so where does that leave us?
Yes but they never SHOWED proof all he did was shoot an otter in a stream at point blank, and as for Doomeye, It's pretty easy to hit a HUGE target that is not moving. As for Samkim never fighting with a bow.... That's hard to answer but he was still the best.
Samkim and Lady Amber.
(Go squirrel archers!)
Lonna Bowstrip, it is in his name!
Grath
Grath
Grath
Grath
Grath
It seems I'm the only one who thinks Iris Streambattle was any good. Go Otters!
Iris was cool too.
She was good... But NOT better then, do I even have to say it?
Why would it matter that there's a size difference? How would it be fair to cripple someone just because they're bigger? Maybe Samkim would have been better if he had been a badger, but he wasn't.
Yeah, your right. I feel like Badger bow and arrows are better than other bow and arrows animals.
Go Otter archers!
Booooooooo!!! Even though Grath was my favorite bow and arrow, the badgers had more power distance I think.
Buttttt, if you picture other animals along the same plain to make things fair.... Then you get a whole new feel for who beats who.
But the point isn't to be fair, the point is to determine who is the best creature with a bow.
Well if your going to do that then you have to look at all the differences, setbacks, unfair advantages and so on BEFORE you can POSSIBLY decide!
Being a badger also has it's drawbacks. It's harder to get arrows for a larger bow. It was hard for Lonna to get into the abbey because he was so much bigger. Lonna was wounded. I can go on.
Well I can go on about others: Samkim was smaller, he was always getting in trouble cause he was shooting, Samkim had no outside experiance, Shall I go on?
Quote from: danflorreguba on April 05, 2012, 06:07:58 PM
Buttttt, if you picture other animals along the same plain to make things fair.... Then you get a whole new feel for who beats who.
Well that's not it for me. I've seen like all the Bow and arrow animals.
Be that as it may you still have to envision them on a plain that would make things COMPLETLY fair before you can say who's best.
Tch. Too Bad.
???
Hehehehe. You can't see my imagination. If you could go in my brain you'd see all the great pictures in my mind I can make from just the slightest detail.
Samkim is still the best so, who cares!?!! :P
Wow. I started this and I've created a huge argument. Okat everyone. Let's all be fair to everyones opinions. We all have our favorite. I created this so people could share there opinoins of there favorite. Hehehe. Please try your best not to get too competitive.
You should turn it into a pole :)
K, it's now a pole. Whoever gets the most votes, wins by majority. That means they are technically the best. K everyone?
Eh? No Iris Streambattle?? Guess I'll vote for Lonna.
Seeing as there's no Lady Amber, I voted for Samkim!
Thank you! The only reason people are voting for Lonna is cause he's a badger!
I thought Lady Amber was good at it, too.
Yea, lady Amber was good too, just not AS GOOD.
I'm not voting for Lonna "just because he's a badger", I really think he was better.
Cause he was a BIG badger! That's why everyone likes him!
Likes him maybe, but again, I didn't vote for him just because I like him.
This argument is getting old.
I agree. We should like whoever we want to and not fight
So far, Lonna is winning by majority. Lonna might be most popular!
Yeah... We talked about this already, it's because he's the biggest... This pole is so biased.
The argument may be old, but it's not finished, apparently. It's not bias if someone genuinely thinks that person is better.
Grrr.... There needs to be some even field for inspection before this problem can be solved.
He isn't better because he is bigger, I'm sure he would win in a contest
1. He's more acurate
2.More powerful shots and
3.His shots go further
Well guess what:
1. He's NOT more accurate
2. His shots are more powerful BECAUSE he's big (that's what I've been saying all along
3. He shoots farther BECAUSE he's big (duh)
1.He is more accurate, he would win anyday
2.Strength and size are a different matter
3.Again he is stronger=furthe shots
(duh)
1. Samkim is a way better shot providing the evidence we were givin
2. Size and Strength go hand-in-hand
3. Size and strength go hand-in -hand
I disagree, I think Lonna was a much better shot. Remember the last shot in the whole book? When he hit a vermin by altering the angle of his shot? That's really hard to do.
The fact is, it's not a level playing field. Lonna was a badger. He was bigger, stronger, and had more experience. Samkim wasn't as experienced, he was smaller and not as strong. All of those are, in fact, legitimate reasons for counting someone better than another at something. You don't say to an Olympic weightlifter that I'm better than he is just because I'm shorter and haven't been lifting as long. It doesn't work that way.
But if your going to be FAIR (which apparently nobody does anymore) if your going to determine who's TRULY better, you HAVE to even the field, Samkim was still a better shot though.
How is it fair to strip someone of their hard work and practice?
It's not hard work and practice to be born a badger. View it like this: If they were the same size with the same shooting condition, with the same bow and arrow... Samkim would win paws down. And by the way... Is it fair to be born smaller than others?
Same shooting condition meaning what? Suppose Lonna was a squirrel. He was still a well-experienced bowman, much more experienced than Samkim, and he had built up the muscles from practicing for seasons. Samkim was a yound squirrel from Redwall, a peaceful place where weapons were, as a rule, foreign. It would be impossible for him to have the practice.
Shooting a bow is not an innate talent. Some people are better than others, but that's due to practice. The only natural advantage that anyone can have over another would be in terms of eyesight, and that's not an issue that would need to be addressed with an experienced bowman.
Okay everyone, let's respect everyone's opinions. Can someone tell me how to make a poll stop so no one can vote anymore? I'm gonna stop the voting tommorow. And I think Lonna is the most popular. If ya don't want him to win, get in your votes quickly!
Same shooting conditions as in:Wind direction and speed, same geographical masses (as an Archer I understand this importance, I guess this isn't a fair perspective for others). And if you go and read Salamandastron again, you'll notice Samkim used bows OFTEN.
We are respecting each others opinions.... We are just debatin' em' at the same time! ;D
Well sometimes it doesn't seem that. Do you know how to stop a poll? I can't remember it in the forum rules.
He's right though, this has gotten out of hand.
I'm not going to talk about it any more. I don't think either of us has anything productive to add to the discussion anymore, and it has already gone too far.
I apologize for any personal slights I may have made, and for any disunity and unrest I may have caused in the forum. I was wrong to pursue such a petty matter so far.
That's completely all right. Well then, I guess everyone got a chance to say their favorite. Feel free to ever post something in here again or any comment. (I probably sound like a Moderator.)By the way, Grath is the best!......Haha. JK!
Lonna Bowstripe
WE DON'T NEED THIS DEBATE AGAIN! (puffing smiley)
I voted Lonna, but Samkim was good too. And pretty accurate.
Yes dannflor but Lonna also used his bow OFTEN.
I'm just gonna watch this time. :P
Quote from: danflorreguba on May 29, 2012, 07:53:44 PM
WE DON'T NEED THIS DEBATE AGAIN! (puffing smiley)
Oh yes we do. I've taken the liking to read Pearls of Lutra again. With you know who...
GRATH!!!
Lonna is the best.
lonna hands down
What is it with people and this stereotyping badgers as always the best!! Come on! Badgers were made for melee combat!
And we're stereotyping? Lonna and possibly Salixa prove Badgers aren't all made for melee combat.
Yet there is Brocktree, Urthstripe, Urthwyte, Cregga, Russano, Gorse (Spearlady), Constance, Orlando, Stonepaw, Boar, Sunflash, and like a bajilion others! That's not stereotyping my friend, that's averaging! Rakkety Tam is the only to lay claim to the slaying of a wolverine. A badger has yet to do that...
hey the Q was who is your fav if u look at the Q i think samim is the best with bow and arrow but lonna is my fav out of those
Call it what you want, maybe the only reason why a badger hasn't killed a wolverine yet is because there were none in the books badgers were involved in, I would have hought that was pretty obvious.
And what difference does that make? I'm just proving that badgers aren't end alls like everyone appears to think.
Oh yes they are. Badgers RULE :)
Quote from: gorath on June 01, 2012, 08:44:37 PM
Oh yes they are. Badgers RULE :)
You only served to proove my point sir.
Just because something is BIG doesn't mean it is invincible, or even strong for that matter. Being BIG just means your BIG, it has no spill over into whether or not you have skill... It is simple a genetic inheritance.
Quote from: danflorreguba on June 01, 2012, 10:12:31 PM
Quote from: gorath on June 01, 2012, 08:44:37 PM
Oh yes they are. Badgers RULE :)
You only served to proove my point sir.
Just because something is BIG doesn't mean it is invincible, or even strong for that matter. Being BIG just means your BIG, it has no spill over into whether or not you have skill... It is simple a genetic inheritance.
True but badger lords have both their great size and a great skillset. Take Boar the Fighter for example he was a master swordsbeast and a master weapons builder. He disarmed MTW not by using brute force but by using his skills. When you combine their huge size with their expertise of weaponary but in using and crafting it, you get a very powerful juggernaut. Invincible no, but extremely powerful yes.
Plus Lonna never shot at an apple like Samkim did there is nothing to suggest he would have missed that shot. The driftwood he hit was much further away than Samkim's apple thus the size difference in the peice of driftwood and the apple could become negated depending on how much further the driftwood was.
Plus when you say who is the best bow and arrow beast is it meant as a sports archer or as a warrior archer? If as a warrior then Lonna as he had both exceptional accuracy, a range bigger than anyone else and also a large amount of experience as a warrior something Samkim greatly lacked. Focusing when shooting at a innate target and focusing when shooting at any enemy soldier are two very different things. He also had the skillset to take cover shoot from vantage points etc... things Samkim never trained for.
And yet Samkim's accuracy was still A and B what's E of A ;D (try and figure that out!) You ever notice that squirrels, otters, moles, and such like have PASSIVE skills that give them enormous advantages over badgers, 1. they aren't huge unmissable targets 2. they can either climb, swim, or dig tunnels. Shooting from different vantage points does NOT make much of a difference! (speaking as an expierianced archer) And who says Lonna's driftwood was further away? You are making a very dangerous thing called an assumption.
Quote from: danflorreguba on June 02, 2012, 12:44:35 PM
And yet Samkim's accuracy was still A and B what's E of A ;D (try and figure that out!) You ever notice that squirrels, otters, moles, and such like have PASSIVE skills that give them enormous advantages over badgers, 1. they aren't huge unmissable targets 2. they can either climb, swim, or dig tunnels. Shooting from different vantage points does NOT make much of a difference! (speaking as an expierianced archer) And who says Lonna's driftwood was further away? You are making a very dangerous thing called an assumption.
Quite frankly the impression i got from the BJ's description of the apple incident (pg. 14 Salmandastron) is much closer to the modern day equivalent of plinking with a 22lr.
In comparison the shot fired by lonna's few practice shots were incredible (loamhedge pg. 77-78) (also take into account this is the first time he was using his new bow that he made, on factor that only plays into hand crafted archery equipment.) and if you have spent anytime at all hunting with a bow and arrow you will know that lonnas feats at the Abby were pretty awesome, across the airspace above the grounds on the edge of the flat-lands were little details like breezes (though often times forgotten by the author) play a huge roll in accuracy. (I assume Samkim didn't snipe that poor little apple from a dormitory window and was in fact down below the wall line where breezes could very well be all but negated)
i closing i think Iris Streambattle had one of the hardest shots, shooting UP from the Vally floor into the gatehouse window while under heavy fire, no drawn out shots for her, that was total quick-scoping genius!
AFTER two practice shots, musn't forget that! And for your information, I've shot down at targets, it's not much different and takes NO more skill than shooting across... Actually it takes LESS skill, and there is plenty of space in the Abbey grounds for wind to fester. And lastly, is it fair that Samkim was in an early book were Jaques wasn't as good as when he wrote Loamhedge? Absolutely NOT.
How can you say he wasn't a good a writer when he wrote Salamandastron than he was when he wrote Loamhedge? In Redwall the walls were high and though wind would have gotten there, there wouldn't have been that much to affect the shot, and generally it is quite windy around the sea, so when Lonna practiced with his new bow it probably would have been windy which wouldn't have been a suprise.
I'm sick of this conversation, Samkim never got a chance to go against Lonna to prove just who was better... What a shame.
If you get sick of the conversation why argue in the first place?
Because I'm also sick of stereotyping.
I voted for Grath as the best bow and arrow animal, but shes not my real favourite. My real favourite is Vallug Bowbeast from Taggerung.
I have two favorites now: Grath LongFletch, and Lonna Bowstripe
I would pick Sampkin because he was a squirrel
It's Samkin. Grath was better.
Quote from: MatthiasMan on June 18, 2012, 01:34:04 AM
It's Samkin. Grath was better.
I DON'T want to get into that AGAIN!
Quote from: danflorreguba on June 02, 2012, 12:44:35 PM
And yet Samkim's accuracy was still A and B what's E of A ;D (try and figure that out!)
Above and beyond what's expected of archers?
Samkim was undeniably a really good archer.
Ha ha ha! That was genuise! (but still not right)
I'm not sure if I remember what it was....
Above and beyond what's........ Dang, I forgot! You were pretty close though!
Vallug bowbeast in taggerrung was my favorite archer.
On the list samkin is the best
-Revised-
We meet again Danflorreguba. I am not done yet. Heheheh. . .
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRhC-68yRivJzzVAQ-vFC5OwWXYstC3R8uGd0NuFNTloGHgqNeK)
I think Lonna was the best.
I am the only one that voted for Inbar.
Quote from: MatthiasMan on December 13, 2012, 11:08:35 PM
-Revised-
We meet again Danflorreguba. I am not done yet. Heheheh. . .
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRhC-68yRivJzzVAQ-vFC5OwWXYstC3R8uGd0NuFNTloGHgqNeK)
He never responded
Lonna Bowstripe was who I chose.
Ditto
Vallug for accuracy, Lonna for power.
I LOVE VALLUG!
Grath
Lonna
I hate how Grath has nine votes and Inbar only has one but they are stated IN THE BOOK to have the same ability
Well, Grath was mentioned more too. Me, I voted for Lonna though.
Quote from: Tam and Martin on June 17, 2013, 08:47:48 PM
Well, Grath was mentioned more too. Me, I voted for Lonna though.
Same!
I would have voted for Grath but I voted for Samkin because I couldn't remember who Grath was until I voted :-X :-*
I'm the only one who voted for the most awesome Inbar!!
Good for you, Inbar is my favourite but the topic title says best so yeah, Lonna
Quote from: Leatho Shellhound on June 21, 2013, 08:51:09 PM
I'm the only one who voted for the most awesome Inbar!!
He was an otter, right?
Yes, The husband of Grath.
Quote from: Leatho Shellhound on June 21, 2013, 11:12:05 PM
Yes, The husband of Grath.
Oh, yes! Thanks for the memory refreshment :)
Ah frankly 'ave nay clue.
I voted for Grath but I shouldn't know; once I shot at a target for more than an hour and didn't hit it once! :-[ :)