Redwall Abbey

This is like what the subject says who do you like better Martin or Matthias?

I gotta say i voted martin!

Martin! Oh, and by the way, the mods don't really like it if someone double posts, so you can just hit the shiny modify button in the top right if you want to add something to your previous post

Oh ok sorry i am new here as you can see!

It's totally fine! ;)

I'd go with Martin.

Something's wrong with the poll.

Why do you say that, Mask?

I voted Martin.

Martin. Totally.

We have several polls like this though.

I like them both. I voted Matthias, mainly to be different.

I do think it's easier to relate with Matthias, though. Except for the odd anger issues, Martin was, for the most part, pretty much always near-perfect and a great warrior.

Matthias, on the other hand, didn't start out at the top. He had a lot of growing to do to get from being a clumsy little novice to the most dangerous warrior in the known world. He did great things, but he also made his fair share of mistakes.

They're both great, but Martin is more of a mythic hero-type, whereas I think Matthias is a more balanced and realistic character.

*Thinks* I can't decide.

Martin has ten votes, Matthias two. Poor Matthias!

Poor likkle Matthias.....

Poor little mouse Poor matthias

But James I gotta say I disagree with you if you have read Martin the warrior you will see he started out as a slave chained to a pole almost dead in the storm then rose to the top and led an army to fight against his greatest enemy.

James is saying that Martin's just a little TOO perfect. Matthias is just a tad bit mor real, that's all.

Yeah but Martin wasn't always perfect no one is really perfect redwall but I understand what you're saying I gusse  :-\ but do you ever wonder why there story's are kinda similar they both started out pretty low down like Matthias - Lowly habit and Martin - A slave and both rose to the and became heros in the world of redwall?

Pffff, Gonff wins no matter what ! I do think that Martin would, just because he is older and more experienced.

Martin is way better

I'm honestly not sure that we can conclude Martin has the edge in overall experience.

If we look at them both when they're young, Martin in Martin the Warrior and Matthias in Redwall, I have to say that Matthias definitely comes off looking better there. Martin killed Badrang, Matthias held his own against Cluny.

The point where Martin really has the chance to get ahead is at the end of Mossflower, where he gets training from Boar (the greatest swordfighter alive at the time) and survives a fight with Tsarmina. However, I don't know whether that's enough to put him up above Matthias permanently, for three reasons.

1) Firstly, Matthias can be assumed to have received guidance from Martin himself. The Spirit of Martin obviously has greater knowledge and experience than Martin ever did when he was alive.
2) Martin only had a couple of days to train with Boar. He might have learned more in that day then he ever had before, but it takes consistent application and practice to permanently learn new skills and take them to heart. Besides, his fight with Tsarmina left him scarred and with some memory loss, and I'm not sure that we can assume he would have recollected something he picked up in such a short period of time.
3) His fight with Tsarmina was a much closer thing than either of Matthias's battles, and it could easily be argued that he didn't really 'win', in the martial sense. Tsarmina seemed to be in fine fighting shape; her death was caused by her mental disorder, not physical injuries. Matthias was basically unharmed after his fights with Cluny and the Wearet, and physically could have gone on for longer than he did. You can argue that Matthias got lucky in the latter instance: that he should have died from that fall, and it just happened there was something to catch him below. That's a fair statement, but I would say that Martin is equally lucky to have been fighting an insane opponent with extreme aquaphobia right next to a body of water. If it had been Verdauga or Ungatt Trunn, he would have died. As it was he nearly did anyway.

I'm not saying that Martin is worse than Matthias, but I do think that if they were training together, they'd be a pretty even match.

Quote from: James Gryphon on August 20, 2014, 03:07:04 AM
I'm honestly not sure that we can conclude Martin has the edge in overall experience.

If we look at them both when they're young, Martin in Martin the Warrior and Matthias in Redwall, I have to say that Matthias definitely comes off looking better there. Martin killed Badrang, Matthias held his own against Cluny.

The point where Martin really has the chance to get ahead is at the end of Mossflower, where he gets training from Boar (the greatest swordfighter alive at the time) and survives a fight with Tsarmina. However, I don't know whether that's enough to put him up above Matthias permanently, for three reasons.

1) Firstly, Matthias can be assumed to have received guidance from Martin himself. The Spirit of Martin obviously has greater knowledge and experience than Martin ever did when he was alive.
2) Martin only had a couple of days to train with Boar. He might have learned more in that day then he ever had before, but it takes consistent application and practice to permanently learn new skills and take them to heart. Besides, his fight with Tsarmina left him scarred and with some memory loss, and I'm not sure that we can assume he would have recollected something he picked up in such a short period of time.
3) His fight with Tsarmina was a much closer thing than either of Matthias's battles, and it could easily be argued that he didn't really 'win', in the martial sense. Tsarmina seemed to be in fine fighting shape; her death was caused by her mental disorder, not physical injuries. Matthias was basically unharmed after his fights with Cluny and the Wearet, and physically could have gone on for longer than he did. You can argue that Matthias got lucky in the latter instance: that he should have died from that fall, and it just happened there was something to catch him below. That's a fair statement, but I would say that Martin is equally lucky to have been fighting an insane opponent with extreme aquaphobia right next to a body of water. If it had been Verdauga or Ungatt Trunn, he would have died. As it was he nearly did anyway.

I'm not saying that Martin is worse than Matthias, but I do think that if they were training together, they'd be a pretty even match.

In number one you said Martin's spirit knew more things than Martin did but you have no idea what happend after Legend of Luken

Regardless of what Martin did after Legend of Luke, I don't see how Martin's spirit couldn't know more than Martin did in life. He would presumably know everything that he knew when he died, plus he has countless seasons watching the going-ons in the world after his death. Add in the possibility that, as a spirit, he might spend his 'time' in-between counseling the Abbey by talking with other great warriors of the past (like Boar, his father, etc.), and this seems like an open-and-shut case.

I voted Matthias because I read Redwall first, then Mattimeo so I got more used to Matthias. When I read Mossflower (which was the one I read after reading Mattimeo) I found Martin quite mysterious. That is only my opinion, though.

Well... I kind of like Matthias a bit more..

If they where both older like they where in Mattimeo and Legend of Luke I would say they would be a pretty even match. You get a glimpse of there skill in each book when they do a simple elaborate training exercise. I feel like they are even in there skill at that point however when they first start out I feel that martian had a head start. Growing up in a colony where fighting was a life style and then living a good long time as a slave growing strong and hardened by work.

Martin all day long. I never really took Matthias seriously, or at least not as seriously as Martin. Maybe do in part that I read Mossflower before I read Redwall. I saw the word prequel and never looked back.

Now this depends on whether it was after Mattimeo or before. If it was after then i would think Matthias, because Matthias seemed to develop well in the years in between, he became more skilled in the arts of war. But if it was before then Martin would win, but this also depends when it was, whether before Mossflower, Legend of Luke and Martin the Warrior is key. But I prefer Matthias, Martin always seemed to just be running away from the places that brought Rose to mind.

Sentimentality has naught to do with skill in battle. An iron defense and an iron heart are two different things (and should remain that way).

Isn't Matthias and Martin the same mouse,
That would mean whatever skills Martin has is similar to Matthias. bolstered by Matthias's personal training and experience.
I think it would be close but Matthias will come out on top.