Outcast of Redwall is the best book in the series?

[Nadaz, voice of the host]

In my opinion outcast is the best book because of the unique plot two Redwallers Barony and Toggert chasing after a vermin Veil who had tried to poison "Germin gift" one of their own, but they chase him not for revenge but to live with him in his banishment. Also unique is a badger lord with a sidekick Sunflash the mace and Skarlath the hawk, as well as telling the story of how Swartt Sixclaw acquired his army and of his son's mission to find his dad and to gain control of his dad's army. Tell me what you think about this great book. Plus it has some of the best songs of the series home returning and gates of spring

[Jetthebinturong]

Outcast of Redwall is an interesting paradox for me. On the one hand, I enjoy the story and characters (Swartt being one of my favourite villains of the series), but on the other, it exemplifies everything I don't like about the Redwall series. While Veil's character is handled much better than his counterpart, Tagg, it's still a really poorly developed and nonsensical idea. I have never been okay with series that feature species that are just evil by nature, and Redwall is one of the worst offenders, which is one of the many reasons I've fallen out of love with the series over the years. Outcast's discussion of the nature vs. nurture debate is childish at best, and it is not something I'm willing to suspend my disbelief for. Although if it weren't for the final conclusion of the book, then I might have considered it a decent exploration of the idea of the self-fulfilling prophecy (i.e. Veil was expected to be evil by the woodlanders, so through their treatment and expectations, that is what he becomes) but as is, it's just poorly handled. Though Veil himself, despite Jacques' logistical flaws, is still an interesting character. Skarlath is also one of my favourites.

[Nadaz, voice of the host]

In Mariel of Redwall there was a searat who killed his captain and then surrendered to the Redwallers he then lived at Redwall and built boats for dibbuns to use on the pond.

[Jetthebinturong]

I'm aware. This doesn't change the fact that 99% of "vermin" in the series are just evil by nature.

And actually, that was The Bellmaker, not Mariel.

[Captain Tammo]

In Mariel of Redwall there was a searat who killed his captain and then surrendered to the Redwallers he then lived at Redwall and built boats for dibbuns to use on the pond.

I think that was Blaggut, right?

Outcast had a really cool spin on things. I'd never seen a character be formally banished from the Abbey and it was pretty cool to see it happen. It gives you a glimpse at the culture they had. The idea that Veil just couldn't get it right, one event after another, kept me on my toes and hoping that he would have some change of heart or prove himself. You never really do know what goes on in his head.

Skarlath and Sunflash were one of my very favorite pairs in the whole series (second maybe to Sarobando and Bragoon from Loamhedge). I mean how cool is it to see a golden badger and a hawk taking on some baddies and coming out on top! As I recall, Skarlath does not live. How did that happen again? I don't quite remember.

[Nadaz, voice of the host]

Swartt's vixen seer shoots him with a poisoned arrow when Sunflash is chasing Swartt

[SoranMBane]

I've already given my thoughts on Outcast way back, but to repeat, even reading this book as a kid, I remember finding it somewhat... Disappointing. The title, cover, and plot summary it gave me all implied a much more interesting story than what I got. Veil just didn't have the kind of moral struggle or arc that I'd hoped he'd have, and he ultimately wasn't even all that important; the book is named for him, but he ends up feeling more like the B-plot.

That said, I did still enjoy Sunflash and Skarlath (the actual main characters). If I get around to rereading this one, I'll try my best to think of it as purely Sunflash's story, because that's what it really is.

[Nadaz, voice of the host]

I somewhat agree but I like the fact it breaks some stereotypes a not completely evil vermin and intolerant Redwallers. Also I'm not sure what cover your copy has but I know of at least 2 different covers one shows Veil peeking out between the leaves of a bush, the other shows Sunflash with Skarlath on his arm and his mace in his other hand. I prefer the Sunflash cover because although Veil is the book's namesake it is really Sunflash's story. Even if it did not live up to its name the book is a nice change of pace from the other books with their repetitive plots.

[a crumb]

the book is named for him, but he ends up feeling more like the B-plot.

What a great way of putting it.
Honestly, I'm pretty sure 90% of the time I think of the book, in terms of its place in the series, it's about Sunflash and Skarlath, and I think of it as a more Salamanastron-centered book, like Eulalia or Salamandastron, than in terms of the Abbey. Maybe that's just selective memory, though.

[Nadaz, voice of the host]

Okay so Veil was featured in only the last two-thirds of the book and I prefer to think of it as a book about Sunflash but the parts that talk about Veil are very unique and fun to read. I do wish he had been in the early part of the book so we could have seen him growing up at the abbey, it would have probably given us more insight into who Veil was and what caused him to do what he did.

[Sanddunes]

In Mariel of Redwall there was a searat who killed his captain and then surrendered to the Redwallers he then lived at Redwall and built boats for dibbuns to use on the pond.

I think that was Blaggut, right?

Outcast had a really cool spin on things. I'd never seen a character be formally banished from the Abbey and it was pretty cool to see it happen. It gives you a glimpse at the culture they had. The idea that Veil just couldn't get it right, one event after another, kept me on my toes and hoping that he would have some change of heart or prove himself. You never really do know what goes on in his head.

Skarlath and Sunflash were one of my very favorite pairs in the whole series (second maybe to Sarobando and Bragoon from Loamhedge). I mean how cool is it to see a golden badger and a hawk taking on some baddies and coming out on top! As I recall, Skarlath does not live. How did that happen again? I don't quite remember.

I believe Blaggut was in the Bellmaker

[The Grey Coincidence]

I haven't read all the books. I read Mossflower, Taggerung, Redwall, Mattimeo, Martin the Warrior, Outcast of Redwall and Marlfox. Out of those Outcast is my 2nd-3rd? favorite. Don't get me wrong-I loved it.
So my opinion about it:
I came in wanting to read about a conflicted ferret banished from Redwall, oh yeah!
Then I read about Sunflash and Skarlath, they were cool and all-but I wanted the grey ferret!
Then Veil himself was a disappointment. Morally complex? Jacques went out of his way to make him dislike able even by vermin standards. In not one scene until his death, did I get the feeling he was confused/grey/having an identity crisis ironic considering that's what I came in expecting. Another thing that bugs me: why is Byrony so adamant about Veil having good in him, considering he did absolutely nothing good? He came out as singularly bad, but Byrony kept going on about him having some good in him.
And then when he finally does do something good- she writes him off as evil?
I have spent countless hours reading that book, and I loved it, but as refreshing as it was the Veil plot didn't live up to the simpleness of the world. I'm also disappointed Brian didn't try to expand on the moral ambiguity he developed here -if it can be called such. It was great and refreshing and I loved it- buuut it didn't live up to my expectations, so probably just shy of top billing.

[sunflashtheace]

No I hated it. I would say that the first one was the best.

[Nadaz, voice of the host]

First why do you hate it, second when you say first book do you mean Redwall or lord Brocktree, and if the book is so bad why did you choose the book's main character for your username?

[sunflashtheace]

yes it is I was wrong