Beavers in Mossflower

[Keldor]

The question is, do beavers live in Mossflower?  10 years ago, the answer would be a simple "no", but more recent events have made things much more unclear.

Officially, we know:
A beaver was mentioned in the original Redwall book.
Later on, BJ mentioned that beavers no longer appeared in the books because beavers were extinct in England.

But things are not so simple any more.  Beavers have subsequently been reintroduced, apparently successfully, and are again a part of the English countryside.

In real life England:
Beavers went extinct in England, and were last reported to be seen sometime in the 16th century.
Starting in 2009, beavers began to be reintroduced to Britian.  First in Scottland, but now also in Wales.  Note that they are in fact the Eurasian Beaver, which is the same species that formerly inhabited England.


So the question becomes:  "If BJ were alive today (and knew about the latest beaver developments), would he put beavers back in Mossflower?"

I would argue that yes, beavers would have become canon.  Here's my argument:

BJ's reasoning was based on beavers being extinct in England.  Now that they're back, this reasoning no longer makes sense.  Even though the reintroduction began while he was still alive, there's no particular reason to assume he ever heard the news.  Even if he did, species reintroductions are very much touch-and-go at first, with success being very much uncertain, so he might have adopted a wait-and-see approach (and then he died).  It's also possible that as he was writing the final couple books, there just didn't happen to be a role for a beaver character.

If we note the time that beavers were last seen, it's pretty clear that in the historic period roughly correlating to the technology level and lifestyle of Redwall happened while beavers were still around.  Certainly, the exact point in time Redwall is most like is disputed, but the 16th century was in the late Renaissance!

Also, species currently not native, and in fact never native, to England have shown up from time to time.  Gulo the wolverine, that one sable quean, and even some corsair mink.  Wolverines used to live in most of northern Europe, but to my knowledge, they never crossed the English Channel.  Same with minks (an interesting note is that it is the American mink that has been introduced to England, but there is also a European mink that used to be widespread.  Interestingly enough, they're only distantly related.  European minks are very closely related to polecats (ferrets), to the point of being able to cross-breed, while American minks are in the far flung reaches of the weasels, related to long-tailed weasels, and it's disputed whether they even belong in the same genus).  Sables are even more remote, being the main species of marten living in the northern forests from east Europe all the way through Russia.

It's worth noting that just because a species lives in Mossflower doesn't mean we'll see much of it them the books.  For instance, rabbits only showed up a handful of times, but are indisputably an English critter.  Pygmy shrews showed up exactly once, but are also native to England.  There were only ever three pine martens.  So putting them back in doesn't really break canon consistency since it's perfectly reasonable just to say no one happened to run into one because they're rare.  Might even drop in the "beavers hadn't been seen in Mossflower for many a season" line.


So what do you guys think?  Do beavers belong in the Redwall universe?

[The Grey Coincidence]

I'm not entirely sure as to how beavers went extinct in england- but if it was due to such factors as widespread hunting they likeley wouldn't go extinct period, due to lack of humans. I think a beaver showing up was certainly a possibility- and is in the glorious world of fanfics as you well know
You give a pretty solid argument too, I'd just like to add that there was only ever one hamster in-story. So... could have added a beaver!
I think beavers do belong in Redwall- moreso than deers, piglets, horses and boars- we never saw a boar but there was a character named one. Redwall is a very rodent based world (and mustelids of various kinds and of course, the occasional outliers like hares and hedgehogs, to say nothing of owls and sparrows etc etc)
I think such a line would also make sense. Badgers are said to be rare but there are quite a lot of them in the books... Beavers are of similar sizes XD
How to reintroduce them? Well if I were BJ I'd parralel the beaver reintroduction. First in scotland- which means Northlands which means... Highlander beavers!!!

[Jack the Quick]

That all makes sense, beavers would be cool. But the size might be an issue. Also, no character ever saw a beaver dam in the series.

[The Grey Coincidence]

Beavers are about badger-sized though- how is that an issue? There were one or two giant hedgehogs as well.

[Mommui]

Does this mean Redwall Abbey could have an Abbey Beaver now, similar to how badgers sometimes live in Redwall Abbey and are just. The Abbey Badger

[Sebias of Redwall]

I'd imagine that the Abbey Beaver's job would be wood work. (Gotta use those big teeth for something, right?  )

[Mommui]

I'd imagine that the Abbey Beaver's job would be wood work. (Gotta use those big teeth for something, right?  )

Yes of course! I imagine they would be more similar to foremoles/ mole crews in that regard!

[Tergen]

Additional thoughts on the beaver being a wood worker/large beast(Warning: Redwall spoilers)

Spoiler

In redwall, Constance and the beaver made the large crossbow used against cheesethief.  That would make them abbey wood workers.

Another interesting fact about the beavers, Constance and the beaver tipped the cauldrons of boiling water in the tunnel

[close]

[Mommui]

I imagine their jobs would consist of things like repairing wood work, chopping/uprooting trees (I distinctly remember in one book the mole crew having issues uprooting a large tree that required the help of several other people), crafting objects, and possibly river damming in Mossflower Country.

[The Grey Coincidence]

Yeah... (has beavers in me fanfic) Beavers would basically be moles but badger-sized XD
Any idea on what accent they'd use? I give mine a 'ch' at the end of their t's - parent = parentch- but that's more of a verbal tic really.

[Tergen]

Given that beavers would live in woods, I would think a heavier, slower brogue accent(?) might work.  They could also have a more clipped accent due to the large gnawing teeth disrupting the air flow when speaking.

[Mommui]

For some reason im just imagining them whistling when they speak like how gopher in winnie the pooh does

[Jack the Quick]

Beavers are about badger-sized though- how is that an issue? There were one or two giant hedgehogs as well.

Badgers were supposed to be bigger than most other beasts, is what I meant. Any other beast that size would undermine the massiveness of the badgers in the series.

[The Grey Coincidence]

Depends on how common the beavers are. Badgers and beavers are probably both really rare- they both still tower over the tiny mice, but you won't find them everywhere.

[Jack the Quick]

Good point. But to keep how badgers were so famous for their size, you would have to make beavers even more rare than badgers, who were already quite rare.