Top Characters You'd Like to Smack

[Gonff the Mousethief]

tansy was annoying

[Dannflower Reguba]

Acknowledging mistakes is a good trait indeed, and it is, as you said, rare. But being as hurtful as he was, to his own son... That's inexcusable. Realizing your mistake and showing remorse and shame is definitely partially redeeming, but... No amount of apologizing can take away pain that was already inflicted. In my opinion at least, Rusvul was badly at fault, and nothing could have fully remedied that. This is a bit of an extreme example, but if your best friend tries to murder you, no matter what they do afterwards, your friendship probably won't ever be the same again. And that's if you're nice and trusting enough to continue to be in the same room as them ever again. Anyway. Rusvul wasn't evil, or a bad person, but... At a very minimum, he was definitely slapworthy.

So you're claiming to be perfect? Do you think that other characters that haven't been listed are perfect? Rusvul made a mistake, everybody does. His was a large one indeed, but he changed as a result of it. Having no mercy for another's mistake, especially when the one at fault is obviously completely repentant, just makes the one still faulting him for it worse than the one who originally made the mistake. 

[Rusvul]

So you're claiming to be perfect? Do you think that other characters that haven't been listed are perfect? Rusvul made a mistake, everybody does. His was a large one indeed, but he changed as a result of it. Having no mercy for another's mistake, especially when the one at fault is obviously completely repentant, just makes the one still faulting him for it worse than the one who originally made the mistake. 

I'm not by any means perfect, nor is anyone else. And yes, having mercy for another's mistake is a good thing, but... So is not forgiving every mistake. If humanity as a whole forgave every mistake everyone had every made... Well, I don't know that we'd exist today. There's a certain point where a crime or bad deed lies on a knife's edge, balanced between forgiveness, and punishment/non-forgiveness. It's really never a fully logic-based choice. If someone commits a terrible crime, and shows complete repetance... There's no right or wrong way to tip the scale. It's all up to opinion, and your views. Not that Rusvul deserved a punishment, necessarily, but total forgiveness would have been next to impossible. If someone you loved very much told you that you were a coward, that they didn't love you, that you had disgraced them- Would you be able to forgive and forget that? Would all your friends, the person's friends? Personally, I don't think I could. Forgive, maybe, if they showed repetance. But I doubt I could forget it.

Of course, this is all my personal opinion, I don't want to force it upon you, or anyone else.

[The Skarzs]

I do not find anyone's opinions here either good or bad, but solid. Those who repent from mistakes should be remembered as such, but crime must be justly punished, emphasis on justly. If some creature had stolen an item, he must be punished, part of which would mean returning the item. While a good action may soften the punishment, it must still be given. Killing by law sometimes means death to the doer, but sometimes the family of the dead may be given a voice in the punishment. For example: killing a person and not telling their family versus not telling. The family could either be angered beyond comprehension, or possibly give slight forgiveness. But the damage is done, and no matter what is tried, it cannot be undone. The fact shows the damage, and it must be figured out, whether by punishment or otherwise.

[Dannflower Reguba]

So you're claiming to be perfect? Do you think that other characters that haven't been listed are perfect? Rusvul made a mistake, everybody does. His was a large one indeed, but he changed as a result of it. Having no mercy for another's mistake, especially when the one at fault is obviously completely repentant, just makes the one still faulting him for it worse than the one who originally made the mistake. 

I'm not by any means perfect, nor is anyone else. And yes, having mercy for another's mistake is a good thing, but... So is not forgiving every mistake. If humanity as a whole forgave every mistake everyone had every made... Well, I don't know that we'd exist today. There's a certain point where a crime or bad deed lies on a knife's edge, balanced between forgiveness, and punishment/non-forgiveness. It's really never a fully logic-based choice. If someone commits a terrible crime, and shows complete repetance... There's no right or wrong way to tip the scale. It's all up to opinion, and your views. Not that Rusvul deserved a punishment, necessarily, but total forgiveness would have been next to impossible. If someone you loved very much told you that you were a coward, that they didn't love you, that you had disgraced them- Would you be able to forgive and forget that? Would all your friends, the person's friends? Personally, I don't think I could. Forgive, maybe, if they showed repetance. But I doubt I could forget it.

Of course, this is all my personal opinion, I don't want to force it upon you, or anyone else.

You are comparing many deeds with a single one, and capitol crimes with a relationship one. His mistake was but once, and it was not criminal so much as unjust (There IS a difference).

Here's something to consider, do you punish someone who's already been confronted? Rusvul was scolded by others for his behavior already, is the appropriate action to go up and say, "Hey, you did this and it was wrong, and being scolded wasn't enough even though you've obviously learned from your mistake." *smack*

That's just uncalled for!

PS Neither am I trying to force my opinion on you (though I'd very much like for us to be able to see the same perspective by the end). More so, I'm trying to comprehend how people are continually faulting poor Rusvul for something that he has already been reprimanded for, and turned away from. He exhibits extraordinary character in his rejection of self, and is somebeast that I would very much look to as a role model.

(besides the one incident, but that's kind of a given.)

[Rusvul]

You are comparing many deeds with a single one, and capitol crimes with a relationship one. His mistake was but once, and it was not criminal so much as unjust (There IS a difference).

Here's something to consider, do you punish someone who's already been confronted? Rusvul was scolded by others for his behavior already, is the appropriate action to go up and say, "Hey, you did this and it was wrong, and being scolded wasn't enough even though you've obviously learned from your mistake." *smack*

That's just uncalled for!

PS Neither am I trying to force my opinion on you (though I'd very much like for us to be able to see the same perspective by the end). More so, I'm trying to comprehend how people are continually faulting poor Rusvul for something that he has already been reprimanded for, and turned away from. He exhibits extraordinary character in his rejection of self, and is somebeast that I would very much look to as a role model.

(besides the one incident, but that's kind of a given.)

Rusvul's deed wasn't criminal, true, but my point about his forgivness or punishment/non-forgiveness is a judgement call. I don't know that he deserved a punishment, exactly, at least not further than his own unhappiness. Whether or not he deserved that unhappiness is irrelevant, because it was there regardless. I suppose I don't really have that much more to say... Oh. Other than this. Is the only thing that seperates a bad-deed-doer from an innocent person repetance and apology? This is only partly to reinforce my point, I'm legitimately asking this.

[Dannflower Reguba]

When you stop to think about it there are no innocent people which was one of my points. We all mess up things and end up doing things we wish we hadn't. The difference between a criminal and a normal person isn't the apology so much as the heart condition. How do they feel after they've done something wrong.

IE Rusvul, He messed pretty bad, but once he had cooled down and had a chance to think things through he felt terrible! This is what separates the two.

[Gonff the Mousethief]

just stop posting long arguments it makes me little mouse head hurt

[The Skarzs]

Why your head? Should be yer eyes.

[Starla1431]

Gah! Does it matter!? Some people like Rusvul while some others don't -_-.

[The Skarzs]

I was just being general. . .

[Rusvul]

just stop posting long arguments it makes me little mouse head hurt

Debates, mate. We're not angry with each other, in fact I rather enjoy a good debate. And besides, you don't have to read it.

Returning to that debate, I'm actually starting to question the relevancy of my point in this situation. Not to say that it isn't a valid point, sometimes a true criminal will show repentance and still deserve punishment. I think one of the main things that decides whether Rusvul deserved forgiveness, was that others were willing to forgive. Also, the state of Dann's mind is relevant. Had he been less self confident, or even depressed, things could have been very different. Sometimes evens heartfelt apology can't fix a situation, and that's really what I'm getting at. But I suppose in this case, it can and did.

[The Skarzs]

Yes, and to those who are wondering 'What punishment did Rusvul have?', here is my answer: knowing that he drove Dann to the actions he did and deal with that as a father.

[Dannflower Reguba]

     To reiterate what my fellow shrew has stated ( ), I too am rather enjoying this debate. You'll notice (everyone else besides Rusvul, but him too I guess) that not a single harsh word has been traded. We are intelligently talking from our different view points to get a better understanding of the others mindset.  This is what characterizes a TRUE debate.

     Back to said debate: Just want to say that I DO agree to the relevancy of your point. Just being sorry isn't enough when it comes to something severe. The thing I disagree about is what was needed and what has happened. As Skarz stated, Rusvul had to deal with himself and by all accounts felt miserable because of it. This is besides the fact that he was reprimanded by at least one other beast (possibly several, not sure). I also like how you mentioned the mindset of the beasts involved as that's a very good point. Dann is/was a very forgiving beast, and I think that their relationship actually profited in the end due to the outburst. (Dan would have been far less likely to go on the excursion had his father not been so hard on him)

     One point for those that want us to stop, the forum (at least in my experience) encourages this kind of posting as it is rather interesting and holds some real meaning.

[Russa Nodrey]

Scarum was the most annoying, stupid, useless, idiotic hare ever!