Argulor

[Dannflower Reguba]

Not really. More to the good side though.

[Bragoon]

The only reason one might think he was more good than bad was because it's never mentioned that he ate any good guys.  He may well have in his previous seasons, which is why he's regarded as a "gray" character.

[Dannflower Reguba]

I know, I know, but still his influence was more good than bad.

[Bragoon]

Agreed. 

[Gulo]

I was debatting between posting this here or in the redwall gray characters thread but seeing as it has to do with Asmodous and him being evil or not I think I'll post it here. First of there isn't a doubt in my mind that BJ put Asmodous as being evil- just look at his name it means devil and it says in the book that even the Abbot Mortimer would not of healed an injured adder which shows they where arguably the most evil however IMO Jacques does not justify this overt evil of Asmodous or other adders.

Asmodous killed both good and evil animals but only because he ate them. He hypnothized them because that's what snakes do to their prey so that it doesn't get away it wasn't for any sadistic pleasure and he killed them quickly with one bite. Yes he took trophies from them both from their bodyparts eg a foxes tail and also objects from them such as the sword of Martin the Warrior but those were only byproducts from his food and taking those isnt overtly evil think of gnoff mousethief, the vole theif it was I think from Rakkety Tam and that vole from Eulalia-these characters were thiefs yet not evil-they did not even have to steal some of the things they did. Now if one looks at another character in the same book such as Captain Snow he also killed good guys- mice and shrews but no mention is made of him killing evil creatures such as rats, stoats, weasels etc... So he only killed 2 good species whereas Asmodous was indiscriminate this would make Snow more evil no?? Now what Captain Snow did have that Asmodous did not or it is never described is that he had honour eg he didn't kill Mathias due to the medal he had from Basil who had saved Snow's life and he kept his promise of not eating mice or shrews after Matthias returned with MTW's sword and had slain Asmodous. In a way Captain Snow could be linked to Verduga in that he was ruthless but he also had honour at the same time. Looking at Argulor what you say is true he never did kill a good species but in turn the good species never tried to kill him unlike with the 3 joined adders in Triss where the Redwallers wanted to premeditate their murder.

Now at the sametime other gray characters in the books such as say the Gwartribe and the pygmy shrew tribe in the book Martin the Warrior where much more evil IMO than some of the evil characters like the adders- Asmodous and the 3 adders from Triss. The Gwartribe wanted to kill the travellers for fun eg playing a game of catch them and throw them off the mountain and if they refused they would kill them with stone axes. They would of killed for game or fun which is in many ways worse than what many warlords in the series did. The pygmy shrews in that same book practiced slavery something that is certainly much worse than taking trophies from your food. Or even looking at the bankvole drew who was seen as a gray tending to evil character yet he was much less evil than either the pygmy shrew tribe or the Gwartribe. He was looking for his own interests and who can blame him he was a slave and he would not kill for fun. Also the only reason he raised the alarm was that if he didnt he would have been killed- reason being that he was Badrang's spy and following the weapon's incident he would have been killed had the slaves escaped and had he not raised the alarm. The slaves at the same time would not take him with them because he was seen as being a traitor.

But getting back on topic I personally see the eagles,snakes,pikes,sharks, etc... as being wild beasts whereas the good and evil creatures- mice,otters,badgers,hedgehogs,squirrels and stoats,ferrets,rats,weasels,wildcats etc... are "humans" its not really possible to refer to a wild animal as being good or evil as that's a "human" construct. They do what their nature is eg carnivores kill other animals and eat them because if they didn't they would die.  

[MatthiasMan]

I didn't see why Argulor was so important.

[Redwallfan7]

yeah, he was just an okay character to me.

[Dannflower Reguba]

I kinda liked him.... But he didn' really do much.

[MatthiasMan]

Well, he must have had SOME reason. But what?

[Dannflower Reguba]

He was a convenient way to dispose of that fox that comes later.

[MatthiasMan]

Hmm. Well yeah, but I think he had a greater reason than that.

[Coobreedan]

But getting back on topic I personally see the eagles,snakes,pikes,sharks, etc... as being wild beasts whereas the good and evil creatures- mice,otters,badgers,hedgehogs,squirrels and stoats,ferrets,rats,weasels,wildcats etc... are "humans" its not really possible to refer to a wild animal as being good or evil as that's a "human" construct. They do what their nature is eg carnivores kill other animals and eat them because if they didn't they would die.  

Well put.

[Dannflower Reguba]

Well there are good and evil animals now!

[Osu]

But getting back on topic I personally see the eagles,snakes,pikes,sharks, etc... as being wild beasts whereas the good and evil creatures- mice,otters,badgers,hedgehogs,squirrels and stoats,ferrets,rats,weasels,wildcats etc... are "humans" its not really possible to refer to a wild animal as being good or evil as that's a "human" construct. They do what their nature is eg carnivores kill other animals and eat them because if they didn't they would die.  

Ah, if only every post on the forums were as detailed and thought-out like this! You make an interesting point.

[Dannflower Reguba]

Thought out? yes. Imaginative? Not even close. Yes he/she definitely thought it out well, but it is almost an anti-Redwall series comment if you consider it! And really if you think about it again, who says animals can't be good or evil? Dolphins tend to be very kind hearted to humans they meet and many others as well. Living proof of good animals. It is harder to find an example of an evil animal because no matter which animal I name, someone is going to mention that "Carnivorous nature" and say that's why they appear evil... And on the flip side. This is a fictious series for crying out loud! The point is so you can just relax and enjoy a great story! Not about accuracy!