Redwall Fan Movie (and about copyright)

[The Skarzs]

Thank you for the clarification.

[Shadowed One]

They aren't being sued because the cost would outweigh the intended outcome. Students especially do not have the money to pay those kinds of fines. Filing lawsuits is extremely expensive, even for businesses; it would be a waste of time and money for Redwall Abbey Ltd. to sue every single person who infringed their rights, meaning the result would be the content would taken down from wherever it was displayed -- nothing more, if the person who infringed on the copyright doesn't have the cash for the hefty fines that come along with the loss of a lawsuit . If somebody else downloaded the content and reposted it somewhere else without the original creator's knowledge, I don't know who would be liable in that case. Probably the original user. This is assuming the user was not making a profit from the work in any form.

There's also the issue of the company in question being based in the U.K., whereas the infringement is occurring in the U.S. The Berne Convention protects the U.K.-based copyright laws, but once things get international, they get a little more complicated all the same. Further, these fanworks are not, in any way, hurting the company. The particular fanwork people get up in arms about is fanfiction, usually, and then typically only when fanfiction authors are making money off of their fanworks / are claiming the world as their own (i.e., not posting disclaimers with the work). Contrary to popular belief, fanart, fanfiction, AMV's, cosplay, and fanvids are a form of copyright infringement. Another issue is if the copyright holder happened across a fanfiction and decided to use elements from the fanfiction to write and sell a book: then the copyright holder of the original work would be infringing the copyright of the fanfiction author (who was infringing on the copyright of the original holder. Legal stuff is all kinds of fun, isn't it?) Those who argue against fanworks being illegal usually cite "derivative works," and/or "fair use/transformative works" as their defense. Regardless, since these fanworks are generally tolerated despite being illegal, it's not really worth arguing about unless the copyright holder objects to it. Redwall fanfiction in particular is largely original content, which can blur the line a bit.

The issue here, with a High Rhulain movie, is one of plagiarism. I would argue the animation itself is yours, the same way fanart would be yours, but what it depicts is basically a word-for-word copy of the book. Such a thing goes hand-in-hand with illegally downloading the books rather than buying them, as well as downloading the official animation or distributing/viewing the episodes on youtube, for example. That has the potential to harm the original creator (by "harm" I am referring specifically to monetary losses.) If you did this as a personal project, to aid yourself in learning or teaching, and did not distribute it, I can't see how it harms the original creator. Same as retyping one of the books into a word processor as an exercise to improve your WPM: don't share it, don't sell it, obviously. According to the fine print, it is illegal. But I wouldn't discourage you from working on a project like that, especially if it's used primarily to help you learn something.

More of my opinion, not that it was asked for in the first place (but you're getting it anyway because I am the Great and Talkative Osu Who Enjoys Rambling): when it's all said and done I wouldn't worry too much about this particular project. That's not to say you've got a green light to do it, but -- and don't take this the wrong way, I do not mean to be negative or rude -- it is extremely unlikely anything is going to come of it. There is no need for anybody to get up in arms about it for that reason alone. I would file it away with fanarts that depict specific scenes from the books, and fanfiction that rewrite scenes from the books. Yes, it's infringement; no, it isn't doing any harm, and no, nobody is going to sue you (or in this case, your parents; what's more likely is your parents would receive a Cease and Desist order. I don't think you realize just how unlikely even that much is.) However, if you had plans to distribute your work, that's the point where I would put my foot down. That is doing harm, however minimal. We're all here because we love Jacques's books; others should not be encouraged or enabled to pirate them, not by ebook, audiobook, animation, or fanimation, period. Playing with the copyrighted elements in the privacy of your own home doesn't make you an evil piratey pirate who likes to pirate, keeping in mind you remain conscientious about not distributing it.

More of my opinion: I don't mean to say that you should keep the entire thing hush-hush and so on. Showing off screenshots, as long as they don't constitute a whole or partial scene, are no different than fanart, and would therefore be safe to share, if you wanted to.

If you're interested in this sort of thing, here are a few links that go over the basics. Some of 'em are a bit wordy... okay, all of them are really wordy, almost as wordy as I am, but it's good stuff all the same and I hope they'll clear up the issue for you. Always best to get it directly from the source rather than taking somebody's opinion, doncha know.

U.S. Copyright Office
Intellectual Property Office
The Berne Convention
ChillingEffects FAQ on Fanfiction (U.S. perspective)
Fanart/Fanfiction Legal Issues article written by Lauren Davis. THERE IS SOME SWEARING AND POTENTIALLY OFFENSIVE MATERIAL used as examples, but the information is sound.
Create-Legal article on fanfiction/legal issues. This one is a little easier to read if you have trouble with really wordy articles and such. Or if you just don't want to read the long ones. XD
Copyright law for creators of fanworks by Theodora Michaels, (TM is an attorney.)

Notice how all of these articles are covering the same thing? Fanfiction is the most prominent, as I said above, but the legalese applies to all fanworks (assuming the fanworks are not created for profit, nor constitute plagiarism in any form.)



tl;dr: don't worry about it.

Thanks for clearing that up for me!

[Osu]

No problem. If you decide to go through with your project, have fun with it!

[Rusvul]

...Evil piratey pirate who likes to pirate things..?
I am insulted! XD

[Dannflor]

I have a question if it is fAnmade and not made into a movie form WHY is it illegal

Ok I might be dumb but I really need to know

[Rusvul]

...Even if it's not released, using copyrighted material to make a movie is not legal. There doesn't need to be a reason for that, other than the group that owns the copyright saying 'This is our stuff, we don't want you using it.' And whatever corporation is in charge of Redwall at the moment is fairly nice about it- They let us write fanfictions and such. If they don't want us doing something with material they own, we don't have any right to.

Some of the links in Osu's post are probably more helpful, if you care to read legal text. Hmm, maybe there's some english in there too.

[Osu]

Edit: ninja'd!  

You aren't dumb, Dannflor; law is just complicated and boring. XD It's illegal because it's fanmade. Unless the creator gave explicit permission for a fan to (write a fic, animate a movie, etc.) they don't have the legal right to do it -- beyond fair use and all that, of course; you all know my stance on that from my last post.

Here's a different way of thinking about it, although you're going to have to forgive me for the somewhat extraneous example: let's say you write a fanfic with all OC's in an AU world of your own making. Now let's say somebody then writes a fanfic based on your fic without asking you, notifying you, or anything; they're using your characters and your setting to do things you didn't create them to do, without permission. Obviously if the other person never spreads it around you won't know about it, but let's say they put it up somewhere and you find out. Those were your characters; that was your fictional universe; somebody took those things and used them without your permission, without even letting you know. They might even have used them in a way that you disagree with on a moral or political level.

If you confront them, they tell you that you should take it as a compliment because they're only doing it out of love for your work, and you have no right to tell them to stop using your creations as they please; and it is, in a way, free advertising for your original fic. But for many people, I would think, that just doesn't sit right. There are certainly authors out there who have made it clear they won't allow fanfiction of their creations, and the law backed them up; I would take it upon myself to presume those creators aren't interested in any other fan creation deriving from the their work, either, animated or otherwise. And likewise, there are fans who will refuse to create or consume fanworks for the same reasons.

That was a long answer for a simple question, but I think you get my point. However you choose to celebrate your admiration for a book, movie, whatever, keep in mind that, while the law does not define whether something is morally reprehensible or not, it is still the law.

Aaaaand no matter how I word that it sounds like a vague threat. >.> It's not. Don't redistribute the books or the cartoons, obviously, but for heaven's sake, have fun being a fan! Don't let things like this interfere with your enjoyment in Jacques's works.

[Rusvul]

Aaaaand yep. That made more sense. Well put, Osu!