Redwall Fan Movie (and about copyright)

[Ungatt Trunn]

It would be cool if someone could actually get the rights to making a Redwall Movie. On The Redwall Wiki, it had at least half a dozen references to movie companies failing to get the rights to making a Redwall movie, with the exception of Nevela.

[Mariel]

I know copyright is important but it is insanely annoying sometimes. 

[Shadowed One]

Yeah, I know. Though, if I do get the copyright for this, I will assuredly finish the movie. I still have all the material for it.

[Blaggut]

I am just reading high ruling, maybe Marlfox would make a great movie? If you get rights and time make a Marlfox one! And please try hard for the rights!

[Shadowed One]

I will think about it. I may not get the rights, however.

[Jukka the Sling]

If the rights were sold to some company already, why aren't they making a movie?

[Shadowed One]

I don't know. Perhaps they are. Look at this:

redwallmovie.com

[Romsca]

OK... and? It's just a picture! Looks very fan-made. And why would they make a whole new story instead of one based on one of the books? Sorry, I'm just kinda doubtful...

[Gonff the Mousethief]

did he lock it I cant see anything

[Shadowed One]

I have a question. LordTBT, I have noticed several "Redwall Movie School Project" videos on YouTube. Are they illegal, and if so, why are they not being sued, or at least taken off YouTube?

[Ungatt Trunn]

I have a question. LordTBT, I have noticed several "Redwall Movie School Project" videos on YouTube. Are they illegal, and if so, why are they not being sued, or at least taken off YouTube?

Think you can post one of them up so that we can see them for ourselves? Or at least a link to one?

[Shadowed One]

Sorry I don't have a link, but they are kind of hard to find. I stumbled across them a little while ago.

[Osu]

They aren't being sued because the cost would outweigh the intended outcome. Students especially do not have the money to pay those kinds of fines. Filing lawsuits is extremely expensive, even for businesses; it would be a waste of time and money for Redwall Abbey Ltd. to sue every single person who infringed their rights, meaning the result would be the content would taken down from wherever it was displayed -- nothing more, if the person who infringed on the copyright doesn't have the cash for the hefty fines that come along with the loss of a lawsuit . If somebody else downloaded the content and reposted it somewhere else without the original creator's knowledge, I don't know who would be liable in that case. Probably the original user. This is assuming the user was not making a profit from the work in any form.

There's also the issue of the company in question being based in the U.K., whereas the infringement is occurring in the U.S. The Berne Convention protects the U.K.-based copyright laws, but once things get international, they get a little more complicated all the same. Further, these fanworks are not, in any way, hurting the company. The particular fanwork people get up in arms about is fanfiction, usually, and then typically only when fanfiction authors are making money off of their fanworks / are claiming the world as their own (i.e., not posting disclaimers with the work). Contrary to popular belief, fanart, fanfiction, AMV's, cosplay, and fanvids are a form of copyright infringement. Another issue is if the copyright holder happened across a fanfiction and decided to use elements from the fanfiction to write and sell a book: then the copyright holder of the original work would be infringing the copyright of the fanfiction author (who was infringing on the copyright of the original holder. Legal stuff is all kinds of fun, isn't it?) Those who argue against fanworks being illegal usually cite "derivative works," and/or "fair use/transformative works" as their defense. Regardless, since these fanworks are generally tolerated despite being illegal, it's not really worth arguing about unless the copyright holder objects to it. Redwall fanfiction in particular is largely original content, which can blur the line a bit.

The issue here, with a High Rhulain movie, is one of plagiarism. I would argue the animation itself is yours, the same way fanart would be yours, but what it depicts is basically a word-for-word copy of the book. Such a thing goes hand-in-hand with illegally downloading the books rather than buying them, as well as downloading the official animation or distributing/viewing the episodes on youtube, for example. That has the potential to harm the original creator (by "harm" I am referring specifically to monetary losses.) If you did this as a personal project, to aid yourself in learning or teaching, and did not distribute it, I can't see how it harms the original creator. Same as retyping one of the books into a word processor as an exercise to improve your WPM: don't share it, don't sell it, obviously. According to the fine print, it is illegal. But I wouldn't discourage you from working on a project like that, especially if it's used primarily to help you learn something.

More of my opinion, not that it was asked for in the first place (but you're getting it anyway because I am the Great and Talkative Osu Who Enjoys Rambling): when it's all said and done I wouldn't worry too much about this particular project. That's not to say you've got a green light to do it, but -- and don't take this the wrong way, I do not mean to be negative or rude -- it is extremely unlikely anything is going to come of it. There is no need for anybody to get up in arms about it for that reason alone. I would file it away with fanarts that depict specific scenes from the books, and fanfiction that rewrite scenes from the books. Yes, it's infringement; no, it isn't doing any harm, and no, nobody is going to sue you (or in this case, your parents; what's more likely is your parents would receive a Cease and Desist order. I don't think you realize just how unlikely even that much is.) However, if you had plans to distribute your work, that's the point where I would put my foot down. That is doing harm, however minimal. We're all here because we love Jacques's books; others should not be encouraged or enabled to pirate them, not by ebook, audiobook, animation, or fanimation, period. Playing with the copyrighted elements in the privacy of your own home doesn't make you an evil piratey pirate who likes to pirate, keeping in mind you remain conscientious about not distributing it.

More of my opinion: I don't mean to say that you should keep the entire thing hush-hush and so on. Showing off screenshots, as long as they don't constitute a whole or partial scene, are no different than fanart, and would therefore be safe to share, if you wanted to.

If you're interested in this sort of thing, here are a few links that go over the basics. Some of 'em are a bit wordy... okay, all of them are really wordy, almost as wordy as I am, but it's good stuff all the same and I hope they'll clear up the issue for you. Always best to get it directly from the source rather than taking somebody's opinion, doncha know.

U.S. Copyright Office
Intellectual Property Office
The Berne Convention
ChillingEffects FAQ on Fanfiction (U.S. perspective)
Fanart/Fanfiction Legal Issues article written by Lauren Davis. THERE IS SOME SWEARING AND POTENTIALLY OFFENSIVE MATERIAL used as examples, but the information is sound.
Create-Legal article on fanfiction/legal issues. This one is a little easier to read if you have trouble with really wordy articles and such. Or if you just don't want to read the long ones. XD
Copyright law for creators of fanworks by Theodora Michaels, (TM is an attorney.)

Notice how all of these articles are covering the same thing? Fanfiction is the most prominent, as I said above, but the legalese applies to all fanworks (assuming the fanworks are not created for profit, nor constitute plagiarism in any form.)



tl;dr: don't worry about it.

[The Skarzs]

Question, if fanart is a form of copyright infringement, then why is it allowed here on the forum? Is it only a matter of copyright concern if it is being sold, or are there just too many fan drawings and such art for people to want to worry about?

[Osu]

Because it doesn't cause any monetary damage to Redwall Abbey Ltd. It wouldn't matter if there was only one fanart or millions of them, the cost and fandom backlash for sending cease-and-desist orders outweighs any damage caused by the fanwork. And that damage is negligible, if it exists at all. Like fanfiction, it is tolerated. If Redwall Abbey Ltd. decided allowing fanart (or any fanwork) would hurt the company, the content would not be allowed in the first place. They can always change their minds, of course, but I think that's pretty unlikely.

It's like a case of picking battles, I guess.