Redwall's "Gray" Characters

[Lutra]

That would be a fitting answer for me.  They certainly fit the bill on this quote: "Growing old is mandatory; growing up is optional." 

[Lily]

That would be a fitting answer for me.  They certainly fit the bill on this quote: "Growing old is mandatory; growing up is optional." 

I like to live by that quote.

[Folgrimeo]

Check out Tugga Bruster from "Doomwyte", he's a Log-a-log shrew but very rude and heartless, gaining enemies from vermin and goodbeasts alike. Gray characters can make things more interesting. My favorite example is still Blaggut though, for the emotional climax where he believed he deserved death. Tagg didn't seem like a gray character at all, he didn't really have a transition from evil to good. Neither did Blaggut, but he was a vermin so his happy nature could be attributed to blissful stupidity. ...until he started crying.

I agree with Lutra on the behavior of the Gawtrybe squirrels. Makes me wonder if they ever played the mountain game with other Gawtrybe squirrels.

[Taggerung_of_Redwall]

The Gawtrybe beat each other up it appears as much as with travelers. They might not have tried a game like that before, but they might well have played just as dangerous games all the same.

[Lutra]

The Gawtrybe beat each other up it appears as much as with travelers. They might not have tried a game like that before, but they might well have played just as dangerous games all the same.

Would that make them "gray" characters or just morons?    I go with the latter.

[daskar666]

Triggut Frap was definitely a hedgehog villain.

[Taggerung_of_Redwall]

Yeah, he was pretty strange. Like, very strange. And defiantly a villain.

[sabretache5611]

Triggut Frap was definitely a hedgehog villain.

I thought Blood Apis was a little more scary.  Wait, did you guys notice that both Doomwyte and Sable Quean both have hedgehog villains, and that Doomwyte precedes the Sable Quean?  That's rather strange to have hedgehog villains in two consecutive books.

[daskar666]

There are alot of similarities between Doomwyte and the Sable Quean (ie the antagonists both try to flee expecting to easily become  horde leaders again but get avenged by a character that shows up late in the book). And the antagonists' secret lairs as well.

[Taggerung_of_Redwall]

the antagonists both try to flee expecting to easily become  horde leaders again but get avenged by a character that shows up late in the book

That happened more than in just Doomwyte and The Sable Quean

[daskar666]

And there were malevolent hedgehogs in more than Doomwyte and the Sable Quean.
Interestingly enough, when Vizka Longtooth tries to escape in Eulalia! (the book before Doomwyte) he also plans on going to the south coast and rebuilding his crew, etc. making it 3 in a row.

[James Gryphon]

the antagonists both try to flee expecting to easily become  horde leaders again but get avenged by a character that shows up late in the book

Well, the fleeing does happen in a lot of the books, and the vengeance does also, in a good many cases.

Redwall: One of the exceptions; Cluny doesn't need to rebuild his horde since it's still intact at the time of his final battle.
Mossflower: Kotir is destroyed by a catapult. Tsarmina Greeneyes flees, expecting that she'll finish off the woodlanders (and then presumably come back to rule Mossflower later). 1 out of 2.
Mattimeo: Nadaz hides in Malkariss' statue, expecting that he can emerge after the conflict to build his own empire. Also, Slagar sits up on top of it all, dreaming about how he'll get his revenge on the Redwallers (again). Neither of them are killed by characters that show up late in the book, though, so I'll count this as half a point each for 2 out of 4.
Mariel of Redwall: Shortly before his final defeat, Gabool comes to himself and begins planning out new conquests, with the idea of building an entire new fleet of ships, each one larger and faster than Darkqueen. He's killed by his own captive Skrabblag. 3 out of 5.
Salamandastron: Klitch manages to crawl out of Salamandastron, expecting that he has enough of the features that won his father's fame that he can build up his own horde. He very well might have, except he never gets the chance because he unintentionally drank poisoned water. 4 out of 6.
Outcast of Redwall: Swartt probably would have tried to build up another horde after his defeat, but in this case we don't hear him mention the idea; his mind is entirely set on surviving the Long Patrol pursuit and killing Sunflash. No extra points.
Pearls of Lutra: Even as late as the Redwallers' assault on the fortress, Ublaz Mad Eyes still has the idea that if only he had the Tears of all Oceans, that all of the wave vermin would bow before him and serve him. Still, this doesn't really count, and Ublaz doesn't have the option of retreating because he's stuck on an island with no ships, so no extra points.
The Long Patrol: Damug Warfang is caught by a maddened badger and killed, never having had his chance to try to rebuild his horde again. No extra points.
Marlfox: Mokkan slips out of his fortress, expecting that with his magic skills he can easily go out into the world and do whatever he wants. Two different characters team up to kill him; a hedgehog, the daughter of a minor character, throws a chain which knocks him into the lake, where he is then devoured by his pikes. 5 out of 10.
Taggerung: The whole point of being known as Taggerung is to use the ensuing prestige to build a horde, so I'd say that practically every character is out for the latter. The vengeance is only fulfilled when Ruggan Bor slices up Gruven, but I think it's fair to say 6 out of 11.
Triss: The main villains still have an empire back home to go to, so they don't have to rebuild anything. No extra points.
Rakkety Tam: Gulo never runs away, and he has a good reason to expect to become leader in the lands of Ice and Snow (being a wolverine, and having their symbolic turtle), so I'd say it doesn't count.
High Rhulain: Pitru runs away with the surviving cats, probably hoping to beat the protagonists and then rebuild the cats' hold on Green Isle. Then every single villain in the book is killed by Cuthbert Frunk. I'd say this counts. 7 out of 14.

So 50% of the books have cases like or similar to this; it's a common literary device in Redwall, and for good reason, because I expect that's how a major villain's mind usually works. Defeat to them is only temporary, a net placed about them to delay the revelation of their greatness. If they were the type to just give up and quit after one loss, they most likely wouldn't have risen to be a major villain in the first place.

[daskar666]

By main villains I meant the main villain of the book.
Also I didn't remember Tsarmina tried to flee, I only thought she planned to get to dry land because Kotir was being flooded.
Other than her only the fox villains, Korvus and Vilaya tried to flee. (and some secondary fox villains like Badredd, Karangool and Slagar in Redwall)

[HeadInAnotherGalaxy]

Well if ye have two very irate and armed fatherz coming after ye, and one'z a badger, who wouldnae run, eh?

[brocka]

Does anyone remember the mole called Egbert from "Triss?" He was a real creep. He disdained molespeech, never took a stand against evil or helped those who stood against it, and played both ends against the middle for the sake of gaining an easy living.  Yuck!