Swartt's lifespan

[Redwaller]

Ferrets have a natural lifespan of 7 to 10 years.

The maximum life expectancy of a badger is about 14 years.

Right there it tells us, that it was quite possible.

[Jukka the Sling]

That's a good point. But it did say in The Sable Quean that badgers have a lifespan several generations longer than anybeast. (It could be argued that this means longer than the other goodbeasts, not necessarily the bad guys.) So, I don't know.

[Vilu Daskar]

In the beginning of the book I think Mossflower was going on but in the second part I think it was after it.

At the beginning of Outcast of Redwall it was winter...the same winter when Martin got captured? Could be.

That's what I think

[CrazyPug37]

It was either a mistake on Brian Jacques's part, or Swarrt lived a really long life.

Also, this may seem off-topic, but does anybody know how long Sunflash lived after Swartt died?

[Tam and Martin]

It was either a mistake on Brian Jacques's part, or Swarrt lived a really long life.

Also, this may seem off-topic, but does anybody know how long Sunflash lived after Swartt died?

I have no clue. I don't think it was a super long time but...

[Ungatt Trunn]

Ferrets have a natural lifespan of 7 to 10 years.

The maximum life expectancy of a badger is about 14 years.

Right there it tells us, that it was quite possible.

But things might be different in the world of Redwall. BJ never claimed that he had his Redwall creatures stand completely to scientific facts. Who knows, maybe Swartt just lived longer than most other ferrets by coincidence. just saying that badgers can live for several generations in the world of Redwall is pretty big.

[General Ironbeak]

Yeah, this is a huge error when you think about it. Not just for him, but for Skarlath. I think of Sunflash as being 13 when the book starts, Swart being 18 and Skarlath being about 8. Later, I see Sunflash as being in his early thirties, Swartt in his mid thirties, and Skarlath in his late 20s. Finally, I see Sunflash as being in his early 40, Swart in his mid 40s, and Skarlath in his late 30s.

But that doesn't work if they all lived from the time of Mossflower to the time of Gonff's great grand daughter.

Also, those two hares who welcomed Sunflash lived way too long. Yeah, they had a mission to fulfill, but that can't prevent dying of old age.

[Tam and Martin]

Yeah, this is a huge error when you think about it. Not just for him, but for Skarlath. I think of Sunflash as being 13 when the book starts, Swart being 18 and Skarlath being about 8. Later, I see Sunflash as being in his early thirties, Swartt in his mid thirties, and Skarlath in his late 20s. Finally, I see Sunflash as being in his early 40, Swart in his mid 40s, and Skarlath in his late 30s.

But that doesn't work if they all lived from the time of Mossflower to the time of Gonff's great grand daughter.

Also, those two hares who welcomed Sunflash lived way too long. Yeah, they had a mission to fulfill, but that can't prevent dying of old age.

That part kind of annoyed me about the hares. How could they live that long?  Determination couldn't keep them alive that long even if they really needed to live.

[Redwaller]

Guys! It's Redwall! Redwall wasn't made to be analyzed to the smallest details! There are some things that need to be kept a mystery.

[Tam and Martin]

And it's good for some things to be mystery but some things just aren't realistic.

[Osu]

Been a while since I read these books in particular. Let's see, I'm going to assume the time between Gonff and Bryony is 60 years for the sake of simplicity, if that sounds plausible to you guys.

If Sunflash is captured and escapes Swartt during the events of Mossflower, that means 60 years would have to pass before Veil is born; and then a further 15 seasons, I think. So when they have their final battle, they're both around 75 - 80 years old. That's old, but not all that old. Sunflash, being a badger, probably has a prime that lasts much longer than otherbeasts and could conceivably be in excellent fighting shape for the final throwdown. Swartt and Skarlath don't have the luxury of being a badger, so I have to assume they looked after themselves, remained healthy and exercised often, and had some really good genes.

Starbuck and Breeze: assuming they're around 10 years old during Mossflower, they'd be around 70 years when Sunflash arrived at Salamandastron. Still not all that old. When I read the book I like to think they're both 100+ years, which isn't unheard of in humans -- so why not in Redwall? Can't see how I'd make that happen with this math, though. :/

My thoughts at first glance.

[Ungatt Trunn]

A little something for Osu's previous post:
There is actually a little debate about there ages. In Mossflower, Bella says that her sun wandered off seasons before. One point of the debate is how old Sunflash was at the beginning of Outcast Of Redwall. In the first chapter, it says that Sunflash was a young creature. But some people say that that is impossible, because the first chapter happened seasons and seasons after the final events of Mossflower, making Sunflash very old in the first chapter, despite it saying of him "being young". But that's not really true. The events of chapter one could have happened during the earlier events of Mossflower. We can say that, during the events of chapter 1, both Swartt and Sunflash could have been about sixteen or seventeen years old (I'll just use "years" as an example). And then we could say that Veil was born about 60 seasons afterwards, which would give more plausible evidence to Bella's stated old age. And then say that Veil was twelve or thirteen years old when he died. That would make Sunflash around the age of 90, at the least. That would mean that Swartt was also around that age. For a badger, this can be normal. But for a ferret and a fox (let's add Nightshade to the picture), this just doesn't seem possible. Even if they did exercise and keep their health up well, this really wouldn't be possible. Now, two character's weird ages can be dismissed. But not in this case. It's also said towards the end of Outcast Of Redwall that several of Swartt's gang members from the first chapters of the book were still with him towards the end of it. That would mean that several of the horde beasts, several ferrets, weasels and stoats, would have to live a long time as well. But, its just not possible for normal vermin to live that long. So, that leaves us with one answer: the age details in Outcast Of Redwall are really messed up. Looks like BJ made a pretty bad mistake in this book. Sure, Outcast is still a great book; its one of the best Redwall books in my opinion. But the ages of the characters really don't match up.

[Osu]

Oh. Er. Yeah, I need to reread those books. *cough* I will still argue that 90 years isn't too old to be an epic fighter, though, especially not in a fantasy setting.

When it's all said and done, one way I get around thinking too deeply about certain details is by imagining each book as its own universe, so major discrepancies can be overlooked.


...On the other hand, I am now consumed with a burning need to solve this. I'm going to go grab the books and turn my brainbox on, see if I can't figure something out. >.>;

[Ungatt Trunn]

Well, I wish you the best of luck. I own Outcast, so I guess I'll check up on it too.

[Jukka the Sling]

Revive!

This topic was the very first thread (and post) I ever made. O.o  Anyway, I have decided that Nightshade must have made a pact with the Devil (or whatever evil spirit-thing they have in the Redwall world) to give her and Swartt unnaturally long lives.  Crazy idea?  Yes, but it explains so much.

(I don't know if I got the seed of the idea from this thread or elsewhere, so... yeah.)

Anyway, does anyone have anything else to add to this thread?