Changes you'd make

[JangoCoolguy]

Something I've been curious about and thought about be interesting to talk about.

Let's say you were in charge of a Redwall TV Show. What changes would you make to make the Tales more family friendly and streamlined. Here are some ideas I have:

General changes:

- Like Nelvana before me, make things less violent and brutal while still letting characters play for keeps.
- Make various performances, songs, games, and stuff for fun shorter or just plain cut.
- Giving minor characters bigger roles or just plain cutting them.
- Making riddles shorter and solved sooner. Book readers (and video game players) may have time and tolerance for that, but not most TV viewers.
- Make conversations less shorter & more to the point.

Mossflower:

- Change the prologue and epilogue from Bella telling the story to Gonff Jr. to Grandpa Matthias telling it to little Martin II
- Do more with the Gloomer. In fact, I think it would work better if he took Stormfin with him. Stormfin was never seen again after that, so may as well kill him off to let Gloomer live up to some of the hype.
- A reference to make Ripfang the same one from Lord Brocktree. I know Jacques himself said that they were different people, but I really don't understand why not make them one and the same. (there are
- When Argular first appears, Tsarmina and Ashleg have an expositionary conversation about him and he retreats after a couple of close shots from Tsarmina (may describe in more detail later)
- Have Fortuna shot as she makes her back to Kotir in a good mood and talking about a brighter future instead of begging for her life.
- Up the romance between Gonff and Columbine
- Show the bats rescuing Martin & Co., and maybe have them conscious when it happens.
- Have them kill the owl at Mount Batpit instead of chasing it off. Still have Dinny take out its roost, but let Martin and Lord Cayvear distract it in an action scene.
- Martin's backstory reworked to incorporate elements from Martin the Warrior and maybe the Legend of Luke

- Outcast of Redwall:

- a brief flashback explaining how Sunflash was captured by Swarrt when he left to fight the Army of a Thousand Eyes. Surely I'm not the only one curious about how he traded one goal for another like that.
- Cut the Wraith. That was just pointless.
- Replace Warpclaw with Zigu. Why have two shortlived pirates with small roles when you can have one with a decent sized one?
- Have Balefur, Shamus Damsontongue  & their clan be the foxes harassing the Lingl-Dubbo family, then join Swarrt to help get revenge.
- Rework Balefur's death by having Swarrt pretend to submit to him, then lead him to the quarry. For the cherry on top, the last thing Balefur does is call out to Swarrt for help, only for the ferret to smile and leave just before the adders attack.
- On the flipside, have Balefur survive to fill in Brool & Renn's role
- Do more with poor Bluefin. I was thinking of having her first appear as her father's timid servant, have her react sadly to his death. Have her survive that harsh winter, but be weak. She'd carry Veil's litter instead of an anonymous old ratwife. Have her suffer the same fate, but barely survive. The woodlanders take her to Redwall, where she dies as Bryony is tending to her. Her last words are to take care of her baby, which would provide a stronger, more interesting motivation for Bryony to care for Veil.
- Make Veil more morally ambiguous.
- Cut Wildag and Lardtail, especially because of their deaths
- Cut Krakulat and the gang war between him and Swarrt. It just felt like busy work
- Cut that bit with the juvenile reptiles
- Cut Bryony's encounter with the robin
- Cut the annoying watervole
- Maybe cut Folrig & Ruddle
- Cut Wudbeak and have Skalrath tell the Redwallers about what's happening at Salamandastron while recruiting otters & squirrels. Might even go so far as to cut the characters who showed up to help at the battle and let Skipperjo, Redfarl, and Jodd appear among the reinforcements.
- Have Bryony cope with Veil's death in a better way besides throwing him under the bus.
- Have the Prologue and Epilogue feature Russano in place of Rilbrook


Will post more later.

What about you guys. What changes would YOU make to the Tales of Redwall to make them work for animation?

[321tumbler]

I would take out the whole circus thing they added in Redwall. It was good, but it was kind of a much used new girl comes in which makes old girl jealous.

[Rusvul]

Hmm, instead of cutting bits of the book and adding junk filler, I'd try to keep the plotlines as close to the books as I could.

[321tumbler]

I agree. The good thing is that they didn't change too much.

[Jukka the Sling]

- A reference to make Ripfang the same one from Lord Brocktree. I know Jacques himself said that they were different people, but I really don't understand why not make them one and the same.

That would be a good idea, except for the fact that too much time has elapsed between Lord Brocktree and Mossflower for them to be the same rat.

But I did like the idea of Bluefen dying at Redwall and telling Bryony to take care of Veil.

[JangoCoolguy]

Pearls of Lutra:

- An opening scene about the attack on Holt Lutra.
- In fact, some brief scenes that actually SHOW what happened with Graylunk and the pearls ending up in the abbey.
- Do more with the Monitors. Surely I'm not the only person annoyed/disappointed that Jacques constantly talked about them being fierce, ferocious flesh eaters only to have them go down like scaly chumps little better than the other lizards in the series. For example, just have Lask take "ten of his best" with him instead of having half the group die by circumstance, or not have as many captured & killed by the Wave Brethren.
- A way to visualize Ublaz hypno powers
- Make Grath a little less spiteful
- Streamline the gang war between Ublaz and the Wave Brethren
- Streamline the hunt for the pearls
- Have Barranca somehow SEE Conva's death (which would be interesting to actually watch), which would give him even more reason to revolt.
- Play up Grall's role. At the very least have him talk. Or else cut him & the other sea gulls all together.
- Either have poor Bladeribb die trying to help the Redwallers when they encounter that iceberg, or die trying to escape (which might be more appropriate).
- Give Romsca & Durral's relationship some more time/depth, and show the Monitors & corsairs squaring off just before the you-know-what hits the fans.
- Have Ublaz die a better death. Maybe have the snake go after Martin II and bite Ublaz instead?

[Blazemane]

Pearls of Lutra:

- An opening scene about the attack on Holt Lutra.

In a book, I think this works as an unseen backstory. The weight of tragedy in books is often in what you don't see (i.e. the depiction of the massacre of Luke's tribe by showing instead the immediate aftermath of it when Luke walks on scene). But in a visual setting, absolutely; this would be a great device.

- In fact, some brief scenes that actually SHOW what happened with Graylunk and the pearls ending up in the abbey.

I agree again, though I'd consider showing these scenes as memories/slowly revealed details rather than showing them in real time. In the book, the events with Graylunk are as much backstory as the attack on Holt Lutra--the book starts after both of them have taken their course. I think if you fill in the details between the attack on Holt Lutra before the beginning of the book, it might present pacing issues. Graylunk would move from plot device to main character.

Don't get me wrong; that in and of itself would be awesome. Graylunk's stories is one of the most tragic in the series, I feel. But if you give him too much focus, it's almost like two main stories instead of one.

But... arrgh. I don't know. It could work shown in real time if we want the movie/show to take on more of an "classical epic" feel than an "adventure yarn" feel.

- Do more with the Monitors. Surely I'm not the only person annoyed that Jacques constantly talked about them being fierce, ferocious flesh eaters only to have them go down like scaly chumps just as often. For example, just have Flask take "ten of his best" with him instead of having half the group die by circumstance.

Yes. I can't remember being annoyed the last time I read the book, but any chance to turn one of the more unusual set of villains in the series into Ringwaith-level monsters--cool.

- A way to visualize Ublaz hypno powers

Yeah. Though again, in the book, I think what happened works.

- Make Grath a little less spiteful

This one I'm not sure about. I don't necessarily condone Grath's being so harshly bent on revenge, but I think her personality kind of walks hand-in-hand with her ability to hunt down vermin in general. In a sense, if she becomes too soft, it might be hard to buy her transformation from Holt member to unstoppable avenger. Beyond that, giving a character like hers a hard edge can make her stand out--maybe even make her more believable than having those edges softened. I think the way to show what's morally wrong with what she's doing is to have more of the character's around her take issue with it (like in The Count of Monte Cristo and/or present some of the results of her actions in a less vindicating way.

With that said, if I'm remembering correctly--and it has been a while since I read the book--her spitefulness can make her hard to like, and that's certainly a huge problem for the main character.

This is why I say I'm not sure. Maybe there's simply no choice. We do have to be able to invest in Grath. Period. But maybe the hard edge can be kept, and it's all in the presentation of those edges.

- Streamline the gang war between Ublaz and the Wave Brethren

In a movie or book, yeah--probably.

- Streamline the hunt for the pearls

What do you mean, exactly?

EDIT: Oh, right. I see what you're saying. And, yeah, this makes sense. I suppose I don't feel very strongly about it one way or the other right now.

- Have Barrac somehow SEE Conva's death (which would be interesting to actually watch), which would give him even more reason to revolt.

Absolutely! It would add dimension to his character.

- Play up Grall's role. At the very least have him talk. Or else cut him & the other sea gulls all together.
- Either have poor Bladeribb die trying to help the Redwallers when they encounter that iceberg, or die trying to escape (which might be more appropriate).

To my shame, I don't remember either of these characters well enough to comment, except to say that both of these suggestions seem very good on first impression.

- Give Romsca & Durral's relationship some more time/depth,

Deepen the effects of Romsca's eventual change. Yeah.

and show the Monitors & corsairs squaring off

Certainly makes sense.

- Have Ublaz die a better death. Maybe have the snake go after Martin II and bite Ublaz instead?

If you mean that the snake bites Ulbaz by accident, then here's one I disagree with. Ulbaz's death is a case of ironic retribution. He spent the whole book trying to control everyone, but in the end, he was still dealing with a force whose threat to him he should have given more respect--free will. A bit more literally, he should have given the danger of the snake more respect. And, personally, I think that if the snake went after Martin and then bit Ulbaz accidentally, it would take away some of the significance of Ulbaz's controlling the snake earlier in the story. Apparently, even when the snake isn't controlled, it chooses to be on Ulbaz's side.

If you mean that the snake intentionally bites Ulbaz and just looks as though it's going to bite Martin, then, yeah, the ironic retribution is certainly still saved. I still personally like the "chance" involved in Ulbaz's death when the snake bites him because it thinks its life is threatened--the snake remains more a force of nature and less a character. But then, conversely, having it be deliberate and planned does turn the snake into more of a character, and that obviously has merit.

[Shadowed One]

Rakkety Tam

-Make Araltum and Idga less whiny and incompetent. I mean, if they are so weak, why does anyone obey them anyway?
-Show the scenes where Gulo and his troops kill the hares with the drum and the squirrels. It would make them much scarier then just hearing that they are cannibals.
-Streamline the scenes where Doogy and Yoofus go off together.

[Tam and Martin]

You know what, I really don't want to make any changes. Myself, knowing that Bryan thought of everything and he being the one that wrote the books makes me not think of changing anything. I think it's perfect how it is  .

[Shadowed One]

You know what, I really don't want to make any changes. Myself, knowing that Bryan thought of everything and he being the one that wrote the books makes me not think of changing anything. I think it's perfect how it is  .

Yeah, but you could always show scenes that were only mentioned in the book.

[Tam and Martin]

You know what, I really don't want to make any changes. Myself, knowing that Bryan thought of everything and he being the one that wrote the books makes me not think of changing anything. I think it's perfect how it is  .

Yeah, but you could always show scenes that were only mentioned in the book.

I know but there has never been a desire in me to change anything. Just me I guess.

[JangoCoolguy]

You know what, I really don't want to make any changes. Myself, knowing that Bryan thought of everything and he being the one that wrote the books makes me not think of changing anything. I think it's perfect how it is  .

I'm sorry, but changes to the Tales are necessary and nigh-unavoidable. Reading a story and watching it are different things in general. What works in a book doesn't work on film. There are things that would HAVE to be changed to make them more kid/family friendly, more streamlined, and more cinematic.

The TV Show had a LOT of changes from big to small to medium (http://redwall.wikia.com/wiki/Redwall_TV_Series#Differences_From_The_Books), so adaptations to other Tales are needed as well.

[321tumbler]

I saw it and thought that was it, but then I scrolled down. Some were minor like 15 mi. and 10 mi.

[Tam and Martin]

You know what, I really don't want to make any changes. Myself, knowing that Bryan thought of everything and he being the one that wrote the books makes me not think of changing anything. I think it's perfect how it is  .

I'm sorry, but changes to the Tales are necessary and nigh-unavoidable. Reading a story and watching it are different things in general. What works in a book doesn't work on film. There are things that would HAVE to be changed to make them more kid/family friendly, more streamlined, and more cinematic.

The TV Show had a LOT of changes from big to small to medium (http://redwall.wikia.com/wiki/Redwall_TV_Series#Differences_From_The_Books), so adaptations to other Tales are needed as well.

Of course you would have to change some things if you were to make it for different audiences but I just never wanted to change anything really.

[JangoCoolguy]

Rakkety Tam

-Make Araltum and Idga less whiny and incompetent. I mean, if they are so weak, why does anyone obey them anyway?

Ya know, you've got something there. That's a good point

-Show the scenes where Gulo and his troops kill the hares with the drum and the squirrels. It would make them much scarier then just hearing that they are cannibals.

I don't know...almost no one wants to see cartoon animals being butchered and eaten alive XP

However, they could hint it better. For example, they could have the squirrels parading and singing, then the white vermin appear to chant "Gulo", then a giant, roaring silhouette covers the screen for it to go black to the sounds of screams (:<

-Streamline the scenes where Doogy and Yoofus go off together.

Oh yes. For starters, cut that bit with the random vermin gang and dormouse family. It was too late in the story to be throwing in new characters and situations!