How would you take over Redwall?

[Captain Tammo]

You're a rising warlord backed by a horde of 100 nasty vermin. You've pillaged and plundered small settlements around Mossflower and some big ones, too. But your horde is losing steam and needs a challenge to keep them on their toes, so you decide to make them all kings/queens and take on Redwall!

However, thanks to a lousy first attempt, you've lost the element of surprise on the woodlanders (but still have your full force). So my question is to you, what's your next move? How would you take over Redwall?

[Jetthebinturong]

I spread the redwallers thin by launching attacks on all four wallgates. The first group shoots fire arrows at the gate from a distance while the rest of that group hold off the fire crews with longbows and fireswingers. Repeat the process on every side and at least one of your groups is going to break through, then once one side has broken through, they either open all the other gates or send a messenger to bring everyone back to the open gate then rush in. Whatever the entry, we shoot down the badgermum and the abbey warrior as quickly as possible, try and pick off as many people with arrows as we can, especially looking for strong, leaderly types. If they hole themselves up inside the abbey building itself we take on the gates with the same strategy, once the gates are down we keep the Redwallers from rushing us by shooting at them as the rest of our main force forces entry, then it's to-the-death, no quarter combat all the way for those that chose to fight. For those that didn't it would depend on what kind of warlord I was, the three options are freedom, death or slavery.

I just thought of that now so it's not likely to be all that viable. I've never really considered how to conquer Redwall before, not really something I would do as a person. I'm not a conqueror, I'm a good guy (hopefully)

[The Skarzs]

Catapults. They are extremely effective, and it was such machines of war that destroyed Kotir. I not only would use plain projectiles, but I would also fling flaming projectiles over. Long-ranged weapons shall be used at all times, making strikes at different walls and gates, keeping my own force less thinned out and making the Redwallers paranoid with where my next attack shall be; this will cause them to guard all walls at all times. Distractions would be a constant. I would block all the small gates with rubble so none can try to get out those ways, narrowing any possibility of sending out for help, leaving only one gate to get through. Trees shall be used to my advantage at all times, strategic points to watch anything important and cause small attacks to at least whittle down their numbers. Once inside, some of my force will create a wall of shields and force the Redwallers down. Some shall also stay outside to prevent escaping inhabitants. If there is an abbey warrior and a badger, we will not hesitate to use all projectiles, flaming arrows as well, to take them down.

I feel really evil. . .

[James Gryphon]

Well, a good part of it depends on my horde's cumulative engineering knowledge. The ideal method would be to build a catapult, just like the woodlanders did when they took down Kotir, and go to town on one of the Abbey's walls. With the wall penetrated, the rest is easy; snipe any of the survivors that pop out with long range weapons, then capture the gardens and keep them well-guarded, so as to starve out any beast that might have survived the previous maneuvers. Keep a guard around the perimeter to make sure that moles don't tunnel their way out of the building, and within a few weeks the remaining inhabitants should be ready to surrender.

If all of my vermin are too dumb to do anything sophisticated like that, then that limits my options a bit. We can write off all the things that have failed in the past -- grappling hooks, ladders, battering rams, etc. The method that seems to have been the most successful before is to get someone to pick the locks on one of the doors in the walls and bring the army through that, but they'll probably be on guard against that. I think the best way is to get some good diggers and tunnel our way in during the night. It's been many seasons since anybody tried that, the bumpkins probably wouldn't be expecting it, and we shouldn't have any foxes to sell our plans to them.

Once we're inside, then we can sneak inside the main building and take the unarmed woodlanders (like the cooks, dibbuns, etc.) captive. After they're secured, guard them with half the force; the other half should go and deal with the guards. If the guards somehow haven't caught on to my entering the main building, then take them by surprise; if they're alert and ready to resist, then just tell them that if they attack us, we'll kill all of their friends inside. Negotiate a deal under these terms: they leave, and we'll let their pitiful little friends go free too. I'll honor my promise; it's too much trouble to guard prisoners.

After the building is secured and the woodlanders are gone, then we have some preparations to make. Send twenty scouts out to bring as many of my allies, and to otherwise recruit as many rats, weasels, ferrets and stoats as possible, because we're going to need all of them to defend against the inevitable woodlander counterattack. The scouts should be instructed not to bother with foxes; they should either leave them alone or kill them. The reason for this is that foxes are too conniving and will only cause me trouble.

The remaining troops should be set to work on clearing out the forest near the Abbey. Burn down as much of it as possible. We want to clear a lot of space around the building so we can see any enemies coming a long ways off, and also so they won't be able to use any of it to build siege equipment against us.

Once Redwallers or their friends come along, we should have a decent sized force to defend against them with. Without the forest in the way, we should be able to use slings and arrows to pick off any attackers. From there, it should be easy; use all the same tactics that they did when they were attacked the past jillion times, make sure they can't use my own strategy against me, and we should be good to go.

[Albrithr]

I guess it would depend on whether I wanted to capture the Abbey, or just destroy it.  If you didn't mind removing a wall to get into the abbey grounds, you could concentrate your efforts on digging out the foundation of one of the walls, shoring it up as you go.  Then clear your troops out, douse the timber supports with oil, and torch them.  Hopefully, the wall would collapse and you could charge through the gap (after first baiting the defenders onto the walltop at that point). 
But the simpler option might just be to let the abbeydwellers take in one of your soldiers, who hopefully has manners, and then have him let the rest of your soldiers in through a side door at night. 
And then just burn Martin's tapestry.  Sure, it's pretty, but it also gives hope to the abbeydwellers.  Destroying it would really make them despair. 
In order to keep the abbey afterwards, mount crossbows or catapults on the battlements and recruit vagrant vermin from the surrounding area to guard the abbey, repair any damage, and guard any slaves.
Another idea, which I probably would not be able to conceive if I were a warlord in the Mossflower setting, would be to build some kind of hang-glider.  This way, several (smaller) soldiers could glide over the wall by cover of night and drop in on unsuspecting guards and carry out missions of assassination and vandalism, and also let in other troops by the wallgates while a small force carried out a distraction in the front.  (I would keep the normal number of campfires lit, but have them all doused quickly as that attack was to begin, in order to throw darkness over the field of battle and conceal my true numbers.)  However, the glider idea stems from my knowledge of modern warfare, and my knowledge of aircraft, so I would probably not even think of this idea.

[Izeroth]

 I have several different methods of attack.

No. 1: I'd have one fourth of my force launch an attack on the west wall. This would distract the wall sentries long enough for the rest of my vermin to help dig a tunnel underneath another wall.

No. 2: I'd chop some trees and build myself a wooden stockade to sit it out in. I would send patrols to find food sources  (a bird colony a grove of fruiting  trees or river), then quietly wait for the redwallers to starve. I bet that after about 6 months the redwallers would be all out of food. They'd probably surrender and give redwall right to me.

No. 3: I would act like I'd given up, and move my army away from redwall. We would camp in a deep part of the forest. Once the redwallers are positive we're gone for good, we launch a surprise attack on them. (Try to catch beasts outside and use them as hostages?)

[Faiyloe]

To start off I wouldn't use anything like ladders or grappling hooks. You only loose most of the vermin on the ladder or rope when it is pushed or cut.

The first thing I would do would be to send out recruiting parties. 100 is not that many vermin. I would then mount attacks on the abbey that would minimize my losses for the next few days. However I would not want to damage the abbey itself to much in the process.

On the first day I would build a battering ram and have it go all out at the front gate making a big show of it, calling out the rhythm and everything. Changing out the men in intervals to keep them fresh and using shields to keep projectiles off. While all this is going on some others would go around back and mess with the other side gates trying to bash them in as well. All while this is happening there will be organised missiles (Arrows and sling stones) Thrown over the wall. That night a large bonfire will be lite for show and there will be a show of festivities.

On the second day The same thing, but lessen the night festivity.

As time goes on show a lessened morale and let the Redwallers think that they are winning, Stage fights among the men and show a general air of discontent.

Then I would have some one I trusted to do it and to do it right. Go and demand access to the abbey to parley with the leaders of the abbey for his mistress agreeing to remove all weapons. After getting in however he would (Under my instructions) Act as if he did not mean to talk about my terms instead he would give the abbey dwellers "Important information" and tell them how to defeat me (This of course would be falls). In the middle of this he would remove a hidden blade and kill either the badger mum or the abbey warrior even the abbot if both elude him (All three if possible) The blade of course would be poison. He would probably never get out alive but it would be worth it because one if not all of their leaders and major fighters would be dead.

Then I would set at them full force with fire and poison arrows. festivities at night a continued show of power and force. I would abandon the other wall gates and only continue work one the front gate. That night I would send two vermin in secrecy to slowly work away at the side gate weaken it without the knowledge of the guards. 

I would continue this for many days till their forces dwindles and the side walls where ready to give with very little effort.

On the last day I would continue that attack into the night and send a force around to each wall gate with long range weapons and shields. After the got into the grounds they would keep the defenders at bay with the long range missiles. They would make their way round and let the rest in threw the front gate.

I would send men to all the stairs and prevent the defenders from reaching the grounds or the abbey. Letting none of them leave the wall alive. Then I would take the rest and if any of the leaders had survived my first poison attack I would take them down with poison arrows (The warriors) if it was the abbot I would take him prisoner and have him used as a hostage. (Later receiving a formal execution) (If he was not available I would use some helpless looking wimp). The abbey beasts would surrender.  They would then be given the option, slavery or death. 

[Emperor Ublaz]

First off, I'd go and recruit more soldiers. Then, to prevent any help coming to Redwall, I would raid and destroy the Guosim camps, though leaving a good amount of shrews alive to use as hostages. Then, i would set up camp near the abbey (though far enough away to be out of range of arrows and any other long-ranged weapons the Redwallers might devise. After keeping them under siege for a few weeks (all the while recruiting local vermin), I would order them to capitulate or see the remaining Guosim hostages slain. If that fails, I would kill one or two shrews in full sight of the Redwallers each day. And if, for some reason, that fails, I would organize an invasion force. Then, much like Abrithr's idea, I would get some birds to carry the vermin over the walls in the dead of night. Half of the invaders would then sneak into the abbey warrior's room and kill him in his sleep (unless he received some vision from Martin telling him to wake up, in which case the assassins would overpower him as quickly as possible. The other half would open the gates and let in the rest of my army, which would then proceed to take over the abbey from right underneath the Redwaller's noses and kill anyone who tried to stop them. The tapestry of Martin would be destroyed, or perhaps I would use it as a rug later on. By morning, the abbey would be mine, and I could then focus on paying my recruited forces and turning the abbey into a larger fortress.

[Vilu Daskar]

I would have one of my smallest rats deskys (Can't figure out how to spell it.) as a mouse and open a wicker gate at night and let us in.

[Captain Tammo]

I guess I should add what I think, too. To be honest, I'm not sure how I would take over Redwall... I would have no knowledge of who the abbey warrior was or where they would be sleeping, nor where to find a badgermum (if there even was one there)

I wouldn't waste much time trying to get more creatures on my side. Warlords with "my" numbers had done well in the past (Rakkety Tam) and there was even a small band of less than 10 that did some damage in High Rhulain!

I think I would focus on drawing the creatures of the abbey out rather than forcing my way in. I would pretend to be a little classier and use words to my advantage. I would use the excuse of madness or desperation that drove me to try to invade Redwall on the first attempt (assuming that that was a full on attack). I would try to strike a deal with them: a duel with the abbey champion to decide the fate of Redwall! I'd justify it by saying that it would minimize loss and cut to the chase faster. To assure them that I wouldn't cheat, I'd send my vermin away and meet the warrior on plains in front of the West gate. However I wouldn't really send them all away. I'd have a couple of my best archers hide in the woods with blow-guns and poisoned darts. Not big, feathered darts, but little ones that would be hard to see and would be hidden beneath a creature's fur. I'd face the champion and win, but it could backfire if the abbeybeasts thought of doing the same or would only fight if I, the warlord, fought in the abbey, so this would be a gamble.

Anyway, in theory I would win and then let the woodlanders leave Redwall unharmed. I'd order a full search of the building from top to bottom and then it'd only be a matter of time before somebeast tries to take my crimson fortress from me!

But then again, they have Martin. But as a warlord of Mossflower, I don't think i'd have knowledge of him, so there's nothing I could do about that. I am confident that this plan would work. Even if I was defending Redwall and trying to save lives, this would be a hard proposal to say no to!

[Rusvul]

Lay siege. Harass them as much as possible. Flaming arrows, bits of rocks, catapults, anything I had to throw at them or annoy them with. Keep them penned up inside, they don't like that. I wouldn't have one big assault- Those don't work very well. Just constantly pepper them with a slow unleash of everything I've got, trying to keep their heads down. Burn their crops, kill any I can, demoralize them. When I finally send in troops to ram down all three side doors at once, they'll be a sorry lot, and easily killed or imprisoned.

[Captain Tammo]

My only concern with laying siege to Redwall would be that Redwall is self sufficient with its gardens and such. Perhaps if flaming arrows burned everything, one could then wait them out. But knowing vermin, they'd start getting more restless at a quicker rate than the Redwallers would and you could face an uprising, even if you kill a few of your own to keep your force in check.

Basically time is on your side, but vermin aren't patient.

I'm not saying siege is wrong, but what other ways of taking over Redwall are there?

[James Gryphon]

I agree that I don't think a direct attack is really feasible, just because of the Abbey's track record in these circumstances. The only times I remember the villains actually entering Redwall, they did so through some element of surprise (like by picking a lock or having someone open the door). After all, Greypatch's crew did the siege thing, even using the innovation of fireslingers (which had longer range than bows), and it had zero long-term effect. Cluny's campaign is pretty much a perfect model of Medieval warfare, and yet, due to circumstances and poor fortune, none of his traditional attacks came close to getting them inside the walls.

It's evident that if you want to bust down the gate, you need something really powerful that can do it very quickly -- either a catapult like the one that took out Kotir, or a much, much bigger battering ram than your soldiers can carry, like the one on Greenshroud. All normal battering ram attacks, from Redwall on, failed, either because the gate was too strong (or reinforced, like in Sable Quean), or its carriers were being harassed by the defenders.

I honestly think tunneling is the best military maneuver that doesn't involve such machinery. It's only been tried against Redwall once before, so it definitely has the element of surprise. It's true that it didn't succeed that time, but not only was it not as well-executed as well as it might have been, but the plan had already been given away to the defenders, a circumstance that any strategy would fail to overcome.

If the tunneling scheme somehow failed, I suppose the best strategy would be a feigned withdrawal. Then, after we've been 'gone' for enough time that they think we've given up, we can retread Cluny's successful plan. (If it works, don't fix it.) We can either do it the traditional way, by kidnapping woodlanders and coercing one of their family to sneak in and open the door for us, or alternatively we can use a variant on the "Vitch" plan -- send in one of our own, more clever troops, either disguised or feigning serious injury/mental incapacity, to achieve the same end.

If it doesn't work on the first go, honestly, I think you have to just try it again and again, in varying forms, until it does. After all, Redwallers tend to be extremely lucky, and also have the annoying habit of being bailed out by their patron spirit Martin, so this thing is likely to take some time. The morale of your army is a consideration, however; it is probable that they'd get mutinous or do something stupid if they had to wait too long. If this seemed to be a factor, I'd switch to a subvariant on Ublaz's plan up above: kidnap woodlanders, then offer a trade: the Abbey for their friends' lives.

If that didn't work, then I think the best thing to do is to just wait a while and come back when the Abbey's guard is down, so I can try one of these plans again. I'm sure that some of my followers wouldn't realize this, and would be belligerently opposed to leaving, so I would come up with some apparently clever plan of direct attack on the Abbey that should get most or all of my dissenting troops killed. When the fighting starts, I'd desert them and hit the road. Once I'm safely away, I'd take a few months to recuperate, let the Abbey lower its guard, and build up a new band to have another go at it.

[Tungro]

Wow, these are all pretty good ideas!
I might be able to put one together myself.

[One-Eye the wildcat]

Take over salamandastron so no reinforcements could come to Redwall, kill all the hares, trick my way into the abbey and kill everyone in their sleep, and then burn mossflower wood.