Redwall: New Bloom Feedback

[Balvayne]

Here's a pretty good place to post any feedback : ). Hope people enjoy. It's basically a reboot of Everwinter Blades by using a similar premise of Redwall falling in a more effective fashion. The setting of the story is Mossflower years after Redwall has been inhabited by vermin rule, very tyrannical, perhaps a nod to the old days of Tsarmina in Jacques' Mossflower while hopefully existing as a fresh new lens to the Redwall world.

[cairn destop]

Prologues, by their very nature, are short.  The idea is to establish the setting and entice the reader.  Now I am unfamiliar with your earlier works, so if this is dependent on prior ones, I may ask something already addressed.  I also dismissed the author notes regarding background information.  If it is needed, your story should reveal it.

1 --- A wiry vermillion -- Since this is a character description, the POV must be whomever is the other character.  Most writers prefer third person, which is omnipotent.  The problem is we the readers remain outside the action.  There is a lack of empathy with the character.

2 --- A heavy cloaked enveloped his the stoat's bloated form -- Suggest either eliminate "his" or "the Stoat's" since this has an awkward read.

3 --- his greys not from stress and war, but battles with time -- I liked this line as it hints at the character's past.

4 --- "Says the stone to the boulder." -- Another excellent modification of the human equivalent. 

Though not said in blunt terms, it does hint at the fall of Redwall.  If not its destruction, than its abandonment.  The hint that Redwall, might, like a phoenix, rise from its ashes if this mouse does or doesn't do something has picked my curiosity.  The fall of badgers too is something new in fan fictions, so it has me wondering if they too have some future part.  Must read on.

Although Saint Stephen King (genuflect, genuflect, sing the hallelujah chorus) has decreed the death of the prologue, I'm one that thinks it has its place in longer works.  I'll try keeping up with the story.

[Balvayne]

Only posted the background information because I saw other writers did similarly with theirs. So, hopefully shouldn't be needed.

1. Not meant to be empathetic due to the vague nature of this prologue and the intent to introduce setting with a flair of mystery and intrigue. Also, third person can be ominpotent or "over-the-shoulder" wherein it is knowing but follows a chosen character, i.e Game of Thrones. In this case, chose omnipotent. Not sure if this was a critique, suggestion, or if you thought I didn't know third person perspective, but either way, thank you for the detailed analysis. It gives me stuff to think on because I can definitely see how this might be too much of a skeleton prologue without enough meat.

2. Oh, yikes! Thank you for the catch there. I do that sometimes when I'm not careful with my editing.

3. Thank you!

4. Again, thank you. I'm disappointed to admit it took me a little time to come up with that, but it seems it proved worthwhile.

Yeah, the first chapter (what is uploaded) begins to reveal more (I think, feel free to critique more because if I missed the mark, another eye is sure to catch it!). I was hoping to leave it vague, unsure as to whether or not I want to add a bit more to the prologue or not. And yes, you caught the analogy perfectly.

Regardless, again, really appreciate the in-depth analysis and points you made, especially my glaring error! Not happy that one slipped by, haha. Also, glad to have a reader with such vivid feedback provided you have the time.

[cairn destop]

1 --- the break of of dawn -- Editing oversight, duplicate word, "of."

2 --- led a a beast -- See item 1

3 --- "'cause it means -- Although the apostrophe replaces the first two letters, the proper punctuation requires a capital to start the sentence. -- "'Cause it means


Most writers fall into a set pattern.  Opening description, character(s) introduction, dialogue, and close with some dramatic moment.  Suggest mixing the pattern.  Most people will skip to the dialogue since this is where the action happens.  By mixing these elements, readers have to read the entire work to get the full story.

An interesting opening here.  Redwall is abandoned, but not destroyed.  Makes me wonder what keeps the locals from claiming it or pillaging it.  The hint of hard times too raises the question why nobody is there or why the structure still stands.  If two factions are in an uneasy truce, they would seek whatever advantage they could.  A secure structure like the Abbey would serve as an outpost to one side and be a threat to the other.  It would also strengthen their position in the area.

Liked the idea of woodlanders and vermin fighting together.  That's something to explore in future chapters I'm sure.

Though the main character doesn't know of Martin, she has received visions.  Will look forward to whatever riddles you have waiting.

[Balvayne]

Oi, errors galore. Thank you once more!

I'll definitely have to work on changing the style of the prose a bit. Valid points on the subject, too. I'm also editing to make it more clear that Redwall belongs to Dunmoon. Once more, I think I was a tad too vague for my own good.

Heh, yeah, actually a little afraid of the riddles part. Originally intended on skipping them but I figured it'd be worth the practice.

[The Skarzs]

*Will read chapter later.*

[cairn destop]

I see the SPAG has been corrected.  Always a good thing to do.  None of us catch every gaff, regardless how many times or how many look.  Don't believe me?  I've found the occasional typo in published works.

[The Skarzs]

Ah, this is very interesting, sir! I am intrigued, and I look forward to the continuation of this story. There were the occasional misspellings, as well as grammatical phrases that might have been written differently for clarification, but it was still well-done and holds in it a complex storyline.

[Balvayne]

Heh, well, most of the SPAG. Definitely hard to catch it all when reading through the forum posts. I might consider writing in a word document or something of that sort first.

And thanks, Skarz, glad to know it caught your eye. Yeah, there's some errors that need fixing, haha, so with time those should hopefully be eliminated.

[cairn destop]

When I do a first draft, I keep spell checker and grammar checker off while typing.  The story and its flow are more important and I don't want to lose the train of my thoughts.

Once that first draft is done, spell checker and grammar checker go on.  At that point, my document looks like a Christmas package with all the red and green marks.  That's when the real work begins, editing.  Always use a computer's word processor; it's a valuable tool and you shouldn't waste it.

If you can get a friend to read your material before uploading, better yet.  Our minds insert the word we missed or correct the spelling without us even knowing it.  Fresh eyes find such gaffs, as well as those pesky logic bombs that do sneak into our story.  I don't want to mention how many times a friend has discovered both before I declared a version finished.

[Captain Tammo]

Spelling and grammar errors are pretty tough to eliminate. Even published books have a fair amount! I wouldn't worry about them too much. Just focus on the story and remember that that's why we're reading it

[cairn destop]

Spelling and grammar errors are pretty tough to eliminate. Even published books have a fair amount! I wouldn't worry about them too much. Just focus on the story and remember that that's why we're reading it

Yes, published works do contain such errors, but not for lack of effort on their part to eliminate them.

As to "focus on the story:"
   You are wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, emphatically wrong.

Why is SPAG important?  Every time you run into a glaring example of bad SPAG, it destroys the continuity of the story.  It forces your reader to take a step back and translate what you just wrote.  That is work your reader should never have to do.

Real life experience:
I worked as an auditor who presented detailed reports to both a legislative body and a quasi judicial agency.  Clarity is imperative.  One day we got an opening in our agency.  One job requirement was to submit a 2500 word paper supporting a position.  My boss asked me to whittle the 100+ applicants to a manageable number.

You would think they would present their best.  Wrong.  SPAG alone eliminated 70 percent and all I read was the first two pages.  Needless to say, none of these candidates got the job.  I'm not talking missed commas.  I mean words not capitalized, missing or wrong punctuation, and incomplete sentences.



On another writing site, they interviewed the Slush Pile Editor for a major book company, asking him what criteria eliminated most works from publication.  His answer, SPAG.  With access to computers almost universal, there is no excuse for a profusion of such errors.  Too many errors tells the editor you either don't care to do your best or you have no respect for your readers.


So when somebody tells you SPAG doesn't matter, it's the story.  Don't believe it.

[Captain Tammo]

Just finished chapter 1 and think you've got a pretty nice story so far. I'd love to hear about your writing process!

Yes, published works do contain such errors, but not for lack of effort on their part to eliminate them.

As to "focus on the story:"
  You are wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, emphatically wrong.

Hm.. I don't think that you understand what I said. Yes, grammar is important, as we can see with your example of applying for a position at a legislative firm, but people read a story for the story. I'm trying to explain that you can scan a document a hundred times looking for that last capitalization error (and if you have that much time and want to make it utterly perfect, who am I to say you can't do that?) but you've only got one shot at getting the reader with good story. So that's where the energy of the author should be placed. There are a fair number of fanfictions I've read with imperfect grammar that still did a stunning job in the Redwall community. There are also a fair number of fanfictions with very nice grammar that completely missed the mark. Do you see what I'm trying to say, now?