Vermin aren't cowards! (at least most of them)

[Hickory]

A defense of Vermin


So we all know that there are some cowardly vermin in the series, and there are not cowardly vermin. We can easily classify most of the vermin leaders into three categories: Cowardly, Non-cowardly, and Plausible.

First off: Cowardly

-Swartt Sixclaw
-Veil Sixclaw
-Burrad
-Skrodd
-Groffgut
-Raga Bol
-Other minor vermin leaders, like Rapmarks
Non-cowardly:

-Most of the other vermin leaders, notably
-Cluny the Scourge
-Riggu Felis, warlord of Green Isle
-Razzid Wearat
-Plugg Firetail (of course)

And the plausible
-Malkariss
-Karanjul
-The slavedriver Wearet
-Slagar

For obvious reasons, Swartt is cowardly. He never wanted to face Sunflash in straight out combat, and he ony attempted to kill him when the badger was trapped fast.  Veil, like all murderers, is cowardly, and for whatever reason BJ wanted he made the minor vermin pretty weak (among goodbeasts).


We have no reason to discuss the non-cowardly...

Right, onto the plausible.

Malkariss is not fully categorized because he never properly fights. He are never able to see him as a commander of an army (at least an army in battle) and he (coupled with Nadiz) use beasts like the Wearet for one-on-one combat.

Continuing on to the Wearet.

The creature is plausible becasue he never really "commands". He is a mindless killing/slavedriving machine, and hence we can't classify him as a proper "vermin" and hence a coward or non-coward. His actions do not reflect his nature, at least in any great way. This goes with Karanjul as well.

Slagar!

Again, he never commands a proper army. Obviously he is a master of double-dealing and deciet, but that hardly classifies as non-cowardly. He would, however, last quite a long time during and after a fight with Matthias and/or Orlando. Why? Because he would be gone ASAP! Slagar, faced wth an ultimate fight, is basically a coward. But because of his non-battling nature, he is also non-cowardly.

That's it for now! Constructive critisism is appreciated.

[Jetthebinturong]

I'm not entirely sure what the purpose of this thread is. What do you mean by plausible? It seems like you mean undetermined, not having enough evidence to go either way which is not what plausible means. I also fail to see how this is defending vermin

[Hickory]

Alright, I'll change the name. And the point is to say that the fact that many goodbeasts call all vermin cowards is actually mostly false. That good enough for you?

[Jetthebinturong]

Ah, that helps. I still don't understand the "plausible category" do you mean that it's plausible that they're cowards?

[Hickory]

We don´t get enough evidence.

[James Gryphon]

Some (not all) non-main-villain non-cowardly vermin, mostly off the top of my head:
Redtooth
Shadow
Darkclaw
Killconey
Scragg
Verdauga Greeneyes
Brogg
Bluddrigg
Saltar
Balefur
Barranca
Romsca
Rasconza
Sawney Rath
Gruven Sr.
Plugg Firetail

[LT Sandpaw]

Cowardly and non-cowardly is a very blurry line, most of the Woodlanders are over the top hero's who know no fear, its hard to compare them with what actually people would do.

If someone pointed a gun at you, you'd do what they said, that doesn't make you cowardly. So you can't really call them a coward unless you have been in that same situation as well, you don't know how you would act if someone three times you size wielding a giant mace that could easily kill you in one swing comes charging at you. See if you stand and fight.

The thing is the vermin characters are waaaay more realistic and typically do what any sane person would. They surrender or run. Now some characters don't get this excuse and are just plain cowards.

[Starla1431]

For obvious reasons, Swartt is cowardly. He never wanted to face Sunflash in straight out combat, and he ony attempted to kill him when the badger was trapped fast.  Veil, like all murderers, is cowardly, and for whatever reason BJ wanted he made the minor vermin pretty weak (among goodbeasts).

Actually, Swartt did face up to Sunflash in the final battle. But lost obviously.

[Starla1431]

Cowardly and non-cowardly is a very blurry line, most of the Woodlanders are over the top hero's who know no fear, its hard to compare them with what actually people would do.

If someone pointed a gun at you, you'd do what they said, that doesn't make you cowardly. So you can't really call them a coward unless you have been in that same situation as well, you don't know how you would act if someone three times you size wielding a giant mace that could easily kill you in one swing comes charging at you. See if you stand and fight.

The thing is the vermin characters are waaaay more realistic and typically do what any sane person would. They surrender or run. Now some characters don't get this excuse and are just plain cowards.

True. I've never really been that fond of most of the heroes in these books. They were just too unrealistic.

[Hickory]

I'm thinkig of Indiana Jones. "Snakes!"

[Wot, wot!]

Good points Sage I personally think Slagar  is a coward because he ran from the abbey after killing Methuselah. That was so sad. Also, he just always seemed to be running from danger instead of facing it head on.

[Dannflower Reguba]

Good points Sage I personally think Slagar  is a coward because he ran from the abbey after killing Methuselah. That was so sad. Also, he just always seemed to be running from danger instead of facing it head on.

       One could say he runs like a Chickenhound. ha. ha. All jokes aside, I refuse to accept a vermin as anything other than a coward until they've proven otherwise. Cluny was full of himself, thought he was invincible, same with the wearat's and Gulo the Savage. Killconey is one of very few I would actually grant the not being a coward award too. Shadow never thought anyone could catch him if he was sneaky, we don't know enough about him outside of his infiltration to judge him one way or another. The one's that "turned good" in the end, shouldn't be counted either, a lot of the courage that the woodlanders have comes from their sense of purpose, and how much they want to help those they love... Something just about all vermin lack. I forget his name, but Gruven's father (Sawney Rath killed him) was another of the few who was not a coward, notice something interesting here. He was fighting for his son, he had purpose.

       Fear is not cowardice, cowardice is when one reacts to their fears by running away, giving up, forfeiting, etc. Bravery and courage acknowledge the fears presence, but push past it, and towards the goal hidden behind. The vermin possess little reason to push, they don't have anything really worth living for, but the woodlanders have each other, they have friends and family, a home, things they NEED to protect... So really... It's almost not fair to judge the vermin.

       I've actually changed my opinion just through writing this post, I still look down on cowardice, but it's not really fair for me to judge them so harshly when they've got nothing.

[Lady Ashenwyte]

Good points Sage I personally think Slagar  is a coward because he ran from the abbey after killing Methuselah. That was so sad. Also, he just always seemed to be running from danger instead of facing it head on.

That was what any sane person would do in real life. And if your opponents were more skilled than you and could and would kill you, anyone in the real world would do the same.

     The vermin possess little reason to push, they don't have anything really worth living for, but the woodlanders have each other, they have friends and family, a home, things they NEED to protect...

Vermin have friends and family, they have each other, the only reason they are bad are because they are supposed to be so, and as they are perceived as evil by the rest of the world, and for the fact that woodlanders are arguably more evil than than vermin.

[Dannflower Reguba]

Good points Sage I personally think Slagar  is a coward because he ran from the abbey after killing Methuselah. That was so sad. Also, he just always seemed to be running from danger instead of facing it head on.

That was what any sane person would do in real life. And if your opponents were more skilled than you and could and would kill you, anyone in the real world would do the same.

     The vermin possess little reason to push, they don't have anything really worth living for, but the woodlanders have each other, they have friends and family, a home, things they NEED to protect...

Vermin have friends and family, they have each other, the only reason they are bad are because they are supposed to be so, and as they are perceived as evil by the rest of the world, and for the fact that woodlanders are arguably more evil than than vermin.

       They hardly ever care about their friends, you trying to pin this on the woodlanders is absolutely outrageous and unfair. The vermin stereotype was developed based off of their actions, and their actions were terrible. The woodlanders had all the right to perceive them the way the do. The vermin caused their own problems, they need to fix it themselves.

[Stonestripe]

We also have to account for the style of fighting each vermin use. Foxes for instance use stealth and cunning so they may seam cowardly but trickery is their way of fighting. In my opinion rats and pinemartins seem like the upfront fighters that have less cowardice.