My thoughts on "Redwall"

[ABareBear]

This is a post that I have been wanting to make for over a year now, but every time the idea came to my mind, I had to immediately put it off following a classic conversation with myself:

"Are you sure you want to post this, mate? It seems to me that this is going to unleash 'ell".

"I think you are right, mate. Let's go back home and have a staring contests with our socks instead".

That was actually my mindset back in the day, but it wasn't until recently (looking thru old e-mails and whatnot) that I have realized how awfully idiotic the whole thing was... my opinion is just that: MINE and I shouldn't have to take it back just for the sake of avoiding conflict. In fact, I pretty much EXPECT the following to be your reaction to this post:



And you know what? I'm TOTALLY FINE with that. Because, if you are not passionate about what you like, then what exactly are you? That said, please try to keep it polite.

(This draft was actually toned down a bunch, though).

So yeah... where was I? Oh yeah, Redwall.

Redwall was one of the most bizarre experiences of my "reading career". For one thing, I actually consider it to be one of the jewels of my crown; and for the other... it was a Lovecraftian Nightmare ready to take me to the threshold of madness and back, deep into the humid and isolated walls of an asylum. Why? Because of reasons.

The first thing that I realized while I was reading it was the that its author really was pure talent ready to bloom, but -as it often happens- the blooming season was a little off yet and the result kinda shows that. The best example of that happens every time that I pick the book up, because I can't stop seeing it like two different stories that overlap from time to time but that aren't all that related at all... like a crossover.

This isn't a bad thing if presented with class, like in something like "Holocaust" by Gerald Green (that book shows you the stories of German officer Erik Dorff and German Jew Rudy Weiss during the war time. The narratives are told in a way in which both characters are aware of each other by other means, but don't really interact at all... it's a successful and delightful formula that has yet to be tried once more, but works because Green actually wanted to write both characters under the same light, something that Jacques couldn't quite accomplish in his first book, in my opinion). That's NOT to say that Redwall isn't a classy book in its own way, but the way it is written told me that Jacques wasn't measuring the characters with the same ruler (so to speak).

When I read a part that includes Cluny and/or his army, it's not hard for me to imagine the old chap storming over the paper, producing such a friction with his pen that it was always a risk of setting the whole thing on fire... you can tell that he was loving every second of it and that the whole book would have been about the gang if he could have done that. I wouldn't be surprised to hear that the first three pages of the original draft were stained in coffee after a particularly inspired English night, sitting by the fire and just adding details like crazy under a light bulb that was swinging violently because of just how hard the table in which he was writing his story was shaking.  I really do consider the parts with the army of "badies" to be Redwall's highest point and a part that no-one shall miss.

That said, I have a lot of problems with the other half of the book. Granted, he couldn't have probably used the same tone and energy in a place that was meant to reflect peace and just the every day life lived as it was meant to be within the Abbey: A relaxed routine of hard work and easy words that was only very rarely spiced up by external factors. He certainly succeeded at that, but my biggest complaint is that the success of said operation didn't come from the characters themselves, but from over-exposition and details given in the longest way possible. Several pages are downright filled with this kind of -disconcerting- thing and, while it is definitely not a problem exclusive to Redwall, it has a weight of its own and contributes to slow things down to a point of -almost- full stop.

Richard Adams loved to -and made an extensive use of- put the technique into practice by having the dramatic journey to Watership Down -and other warrens alike- being interrumpled by details about the nature and how the flowers around the tired group of rabbits were dancing to the wind. Again, it's not a bad thing if used only when needed, but I see abuse on both accounts (and only now I'm realizing that both books share more than a few similarities... I shall have to look at them back to back and maybe write them down. I'm curious now).

That said, it would be silly for me to not acknowledge that Redwall makes a recovery at its lowest point every time (WSD does it as well, but here I was a little more skeptic). Future books would change the story around and would allow a large variety of characters a chance to be there and do something of true value to the plot (and I love that) but the book that started it all had its minor characters very well guarded when it came to that (again, probably because of talent being counter-weighted by inexperience).

But yeah, I could keep bashing the book all I want but... would it really be truth? No, it would only be a hard-truth because... Redwall -even it is half-cooked state- manages to do stuff that no other book in my entire collection can (or has had the guts to attempt). I swear that, when Shadow came under the limelight I couldn't, for the life of me, put the thing down. I had stuff to do, you know? But I just couldn't do anything but to follow my eyes thru the short space that was  his role on the series. And I'm praising it because it was the merging point between the smoothness and aggressiveness of Cluny's part mixed up with the excessive details of Matthias' part in a way that couldn't cast any other reaction than vivid cheer.

Several other parts on the book would try this, but none other could enjoy just quite a successful result.

Am I forgetting something? Yes, I have been collecting weird looks ever since I casually mentioned that I wouldn't be reading the book in any other language that my very own (Spanish, in case you want to know). I see that many people were against this decision because it would completely rip the text from its delightful use of the English language but, while I can totally see the point of your objections, aren't you a pot calling a kettle black, mate? Brian Jacques was a British man, and all the people who told me about that were Americans... Why? Redwall bases most of its speech patterns in English ways and accents, so you shouldn't really understand much of it either (at least by default). Besides, didn't you think that the Spanish edition would have had tricks of its very own to keep the competition fair? See, that's the thing that bothered me the most about the whole thing: People wanted me to adapt to their rules while, in reality, literature is one of the most subjective things in the world; there were little chances of me liking the thing under my own conditions, so, by adding yours to MY mix, you were pretty much dooming the thing to be killed. And allow me to say that I truly appreciate those inputs given for the sake of improving my experience but... just try to know when to retreat ok, mate?

Final thoughts: I'm actually surprised at how long this thread actually is now that I have had a clear look at it for the first time since I started it, I guess that that's what happens when you are actually inspired for once... but I have actually forgotten what I was going to do next XD.

Oh yeah, the conclusion! Silly me.

Redwall is clearly not of my favorite books, but I keep finding myself more and more entertained by it every time I try to read it... it's like a wine that just gets better over time. Sadly, right now it's not carrying me further than the gray area of acceptance, a place that makes it impossible for it to be a hot recommendation for anyone willing to read something. BUT -and this is an important "but"- I actually feel compelled to take a look at other entries on the series and see how they fare. I have read a lot of positive things about The Rouge Crew and I'm actually tempted to see if Mossflower is quite up there with its reputation too. Also, The Sable Quean seems to have some bite to it as well.

So yeah... that. Enjoy, I guess.

[Ashleg]

I personally loved "Redwall", but there were a few things that bothered me about it, like the inconsistencies with the cat and all.
You would never see a character fall into another character's mouth in one of the later books, but eh, Brian was just testing the water, I guess. XD

I agree that the villain parts were always waaay more exciting (and not just with the first book but with, like, three quarters of the series.)
I can say that if you didn't like the first one very much to not let it turn you away, because you'd be missing out on some other *great* stories.
Taggerung nearly made me cry. XD

[Jetthebinturong]

I personally have never understood how much love there is for the original book. I assume the answer is nostalgia. The villains were easily the best parts of the book, especially Shadow, and the heroes didn't interest me too much. If you've only read Redwall, I can see why the series doesn't really appeal to you. I will admit that I've fallen out of love with the series, but it's still an enjoyable read from time to time.

[The Skarzs]

Mm. Well, every author has his failings. Rick Riordan, C.S. Lewis, G.K. Chesterton, Terry Brooks, even Tolkien, all have/had their own styles that introduced some quirks into the writings that some may not find appealing. Not sure what else I can say other than there is no such thing as a perfect work of literature.

One thing I'm curious about is where you got all the spat about reading the book in Spanish. You make it seem like people hated you for it, and the most I could see happening in this community is people being unaware of how it reads because it is a primarily English-read series, so they can only suggest what they know; I doubt anyone was trying to force their language on you. (Also, Americans aren't ignorant of all English accents and whatnot. Not sure where that came from.)

[ABareBear]

One thing I'm curious about is where you got all the spat about reading the book in Spanish. You make it seem like people hated you for it, and the most I could see happening in this community is people being unaware of how it reads because it is a primarily English-read series, so they can only suggest what they know; I doubt anyone was trying to force their language on you. (Also, Americans aren't ignorant of all English accents and whatnot. Not sure where that came from.)

Hate is such a strong word. Definitely didn't get hatred for that, just several suggestions about revising my decision (which again, I appreciate it)

As for the other point, my complete sentence was:

Redwall bases most of its speech patterns in English ways and accents, so you shouldn't really understand much of it either (at least by default).

Ignorant? No, that's absolutely, a 100% untrue (communication would be a lot harder if that was the case)... what I meant to say, though, is that I know for a fact that most accents used on the book have given troubles to people.

But, as you can probably tell, the whole text was picked up from an earlier work and was just polished to meet new standards. Expect stuff like those two points to be there and me doing nothing about it.

[Mhera]

...Finally Most of this looks very familiar, so I'll trust that everything I have to say has already been said. I was wondering, though...

Besides, didn't you think that the Spanish edition would have had tricks of its very own to keep the competition fair?

Though I did figure the Spanish (or other language) edition would try to compensate for anything lost in translation, I didn't stop to think about how until now. So, out of curiosity, what sort of tricks?

[ABareBear]

...Finally Most of this looks very familiar, so I'll trust that everything I have to say has already been said. I was wondering, though...

Besides, didn't you think that the Spanish edition would have had tricks of its very own to keep the competition fair?

Though I did figure the Spanish (or other language) edition would try to compensate for anything lost in translation, I didn't stop to think about how until now. So, out of curiosity, what sort of tricks?

Well, for example, the names are translated in a way that's kinda dramatic more than just literal: "Shadow" became "La Sombra" (the literal translation would have been just "Sombra") and it's written like that throughout the entire thing.

Also, the accents on some characters (like the moles, IIRC) were corrupted in some way to indicate that there's actually more to their dialogue than just regular text (not that you would realize that if you weren't aware of their different accent in the first place, but it's a neat touch).

Oh... and the parts with Cluny... by God are those theatrical! They threw everything the language allowed them to to make them memorable (and played no small part in my liking of the character)

[ABareBear]

I personally loved "Redwall", but there were a few things that bothered me about it, like the inconsistencies with the cat and all.
You would never see a character fall into another character's mouth in one of the later books, but eh, Brian was just testing the water, I guess. XD

I agree that the villain parts were always waaay more exciting (and not just with the first book but with, like, three quarters of the series.)
I can say that if you didn't like the first one very much to not let it turn you away, because you'd be missing out on some other *great* stories.
Taggerung nearly made me cry. XD

Taggerung! Another strong recommendation I couldn't stop getting. Thanks for the reminder

I personally have never understood how much love there is for the original book. I assume the answer is nostalgia. The villains were easily the best parts of the book, especially Shadow, and the heroes didn't interest me too much. If you've only read Redwall, I can see why the series doesn't really appeal to you. I will admit that I've fallen out of love with the series, but it's still an enjoyable read from time to time.

I'm glad to see that we agree on that account I'm sure that the rest of the books make up for all the shortages in this one, but I was afraid that I was going to be alone in my opinion