Mary-Sues

[Jetthebinturong]

That can be put down to Jacques forgetting what he'd already written about the character.

[James Gryphon]

Maybe it could, but when you're explaining a character's statements in a series, that doesn't work. The result is that Martin (or Bella) told an unfactual story, whether Mr. Jacques meant them to or not.

[Banya]

On the subject of Martin's past, Martin promises Rowanoak and Grumm (there were others present too, but I don't recall who) while recovering in the home of Polleekin at the end of Martin the Warrior that he would never tell anyone about their time and adventures together, because he wanted to protect all of his friends in Noonvale.  While Mossflower was written before Martin the Warrior, the past that he tells Gonff doesn't have to match his actual past, because he swore to never speak of Noonvale and his friends there again.  We know that the story he tells Gonff is a lie because he was too young to lift his father's sword when it was taken from him by Badrang.  Martin's parting promise to Rowanoak and the others was a convenient addition to the story and allowed Jacques to do as he wanted with Martin's past, as it's possible he hadn't completely decided on what kind of past he wanted Martin to have when he wrote about the battle for Mossflower and the founding of Redwall Abbey.

[Captain Tammo]

Anyway, on a more general note, here's a spreadsheet I made up ranking Sue-ishness, covering most of the books I remember reading. I don't bother ranking villains. If there's a major secondary protagonist, they might be in there too. Suggestions for characters to put on the list are more than welcome.

Love the spreadsheet, James! As an engineering student, you gotta have an appreciation for those things. I always liked characters like Tammo and Luke because they were capable of being defeated in some fights, yet still had that special something which earned them a top spot (admittedly, I'm also a huge fan of High Rhulain, whether Tiria is the ultimate Sue or not). Being the fanfic geek I am, I wonder if this is something I could adapt to some of the fanfic characters from the old forum? Could be fun- essentially a way to compare characters based on numbers (and a lot of opinion, but hey, I like the idea)! I'm curious to see what someone else would think of some of my characters, too. There's certainly a bit of Sue-ness to Capt. Leo.

[Hickory]

@Tamleo:

Here is a useful Mary Sue test for characters, OC, fanfiction or otherwise.


As to Mary-Sues in the books, I'd like to offer up Songbreeze Swifteye from Marlfox. She's another "beautiful singer" who charms the heart out of gruff male characters like Dippler, who can also hold her own and thinks quick on her feet. Who's the one who wields the sacred weapon of the water vole tribe? Song. Who's the one out of the four main protagonists who hasn't messed up prior to the break-in by Marlfoxes of the Abbey during the attack our on the path? Songbreeze.

Yiss yiss.

[Ashleg]

I also thought Songbreeze was a Mary-Sue!

[Groddil]

Yeah, I didn't like Song that much. Even in Taggerung she's still referred to as perfect, and it just annoys me. She had to have done SOMETHING wrong at least.

[Ashleg]

The wrongest thing she'd done was become a Mary-Sue. XD

[Groddil]

Such trueness.

[Ashleg]

Such wow.

[Groddil]

Ashleg

http://www.loamhedgeabbey.com/index.php/topic,109.45.html

[close]

[Ashleg]

Many Doge. XD

Okaaay. Any other Mary-Sues? Otherwise, we'll get SUED for turning this into a Doge thread!
((I'm sorry. Ashleg likes making bad puns.))

[Groddil]

Well, there's always:

Spoiler

The infamous Triss.

[close]

[Ashleg]

I just started that book and I already agree! But no spoilers please.

[Groddil]

I just started to reread it now, actually.