POLL: If These Badgers were in a fight, who would win

[James Gryphon]

This is just my preference, but I've always pictured Boar as a sort of legendary hero, like in the old Greek myths, come to life. I have a very hard time imagining anything that exists in the Redwall world beating him one-on-one.

I think you're underestimating the sword a bit. I appreciate the halberd's antiarmor effect, but the sword is also a massive weapon -- assuming it's like Brocktree and Rawnblade's, which seems fair, it's as big as Trunn's trident, and described by Gabool, not apparently jokingly, as a "great doorcleaver".

All in all, I think the skill, experience and mental factor is bigger than the weapon factor, especially if the two are fighting unarmored. (That said, I do confess a bias.)

[The Skarzs]

Wasn't Gorath the Flame supposed to have even worse Bloodwrath than even Cregga if he didn't learn to control it. . . ?

Anyhow. . .
From the picture in the book, Cregga's halberd is little more than a glorified pickaxe, but assuming it's of historical length and build, it's a pretty good weapon. (Of course, every weapon has its advantages and disadvantages. Otherwise there would only be a few styles of weapons to have been used throughout history.) Not sure where I'm going with that.
I agree with James on his points, because even if they were both unarmored and, for the sake of leveling the playing field, of equal strength, what it would come down to is skill and control.

[alexandre]

Somebody.. PLEASE  break the tie

[Rosie Willowwater]

@alexandre

[The Skarzs]

Nay!

[Ashleg]

Tie broken, it seems.

[James Gryphon]

Maybe, but the wrong way.

[Ashleg]

The majority of us don't agree with you. 

Cregga's DA BEAST!

[Jetthebinturong]

Cregga may well be a beast, but she wouldn't be able to beat Boar. For one thing, female badgers are generally smaller than males, if only slightly. Plus Cregga can't control her bloodwrath but Boar can. And he has a more manoeuvrable weapon.

[James Gryphon]

All of two people, one of whom defected to break a tie, is hardly a decisive majority.

If Cregga is such an amazing warrior, why did she charge madly into battle and get blinded by a greatrat? A greatrat whose reach and range would have been significantly smaller than a badger wielding a halberd, I must say.

To put it bluntly, Cregga's Bloodwrath made her stupid. When gripped with it, she's no better a fighter than Gulo. Gulo's a good villain and all, but I don't see anybody claiming he could take a badger lord.

[Ashleg]

Actually, lots of people on this forum have said Gulo should have fought a badger.

[James Gryphon]

From the story we read, he couldn't beat Rakkety Tam, a squirrel. There's no way that, given that record, he would have outfought a badger lord.

[alexandre]

Actually, he did kinda beat Tam, it was the shield that killed him.

[James Gryphon]

 

I'll go to the end on this forum saying that's not the way the poll should have gone down, but I guess it is what it is. At least this way we get to see a greater variety of characters?

As neither character used armor in the books that we see, this would seem to be by default an unarmored fight.

In a straight-up fight, unarmored, a giant bow beats a halberd. There's no other way to cut it. Some characters have been seen to take arrow hits, but not when they're giant arrows being shot by an adult badger. Lonna is an elite archer as well, so there's not much of a chance of him repeatedly missing Cregga's weak points, which is what it would take for him to not kill her. Given how Bloodwrath seems to work, I wouldn't be completely surprised if Cregga survived being shot long enough to get in a good swing at Lonna, but given how her, Mellus, and other badgers have died, I don't think that's very likely. Anyway, she would still die, so it can't be counted as a "win" for her.

If it isn't a straight-up fight, that is, we allow both characters room for maneuver in an environment with lots of cover, say, Mossflower forest, it isn't as bad a deal for Cregga. She could at least conceivably get the drop on Lonna. That said, though, given her brash, direct way of dealing with enemies, and Lonna's experience as a tracker, I don't give her great odds.

If we're nice to Cregga and give her a full set of top-notch plate armor, like I guessed she might have worn in battles near Salamandastron, the balance could swing the other way. Skarzs would probably have a better idea about the effects of arrows on maximum-quality armor than me, and is better-suited to answer that hypothetical.

[The Skarzs]

Full plate armor of later Medieval times was pretty much invulnerable to arrows; it was like the Abrams tank of that age.
However, lesser armor is not so indestructible. In earlier times, good metal was hard to get, and even then, it was often of varying carbon content throughout a single piece. (Carbon is what makes steel strong.) So it could be relatively tough in one area, but in another be soft iron. Often it was of varying thickness as well, since they had no way of making uniform sheets of metal back then.
Assuming the armor is of badger make, and thus top quality from the examples in the books, then it should be able to stop an arrow from penetrating all the way through. However, it's not reasonable to think that it's full plate armor she would be wearing. Why? Because the armor that covered every part of the body and would stop arrows from all angles was meant to be worn on horseback. The most they could do off the horse was walk. And since no badger in the books ever rode some animal into battle, they would dress in armor that would allow for more speed and movement, meaning there would be considerable gaps in the armor at the joints. Even if those areas were protected by chain mail, arrows would find their mark if the bowman was a good shot.
There's a lot that goes unsaid in the books about wounds. It doesn't matter how determined you are or how little you feel the pain, if something has cut a tendon, then there is no moving that part. If Lonna was using a broadhead arrow, which is meant to slice its way through all types of tissue, this would be a serious problem for Cregga. Bodkin arrows would cause wounds that would be hard to heal because of the shape of it, but aren't as likely to sever tendons or nerves.
So, if Cregga was dressed in armor that didn't constrict her speed, Lonna may be able to take her down just by immobilizing her by shooting through the gaps in her armor.

That is, however, provided that Cregga was quite a ways away.

It's taught in self defense that the average person running to attack you can cover twenty feet in around 1.5 seconds. If the two confronted in close proximity, Lonna, great bowbeast that he is, would not be able to sling off a clean shot before Cregga would be upon him. If it were twice that distance, about forty feet, Lonna would have a better chance to shoot her, but would probably still not be able to immobilize her if she was wearing armor, since I think it would take at least three good arrows to do so. At sixty feet he might get two arrows in, and at one hundred he will have a pretty good chance. (This is all assuming Cregga has armor on.)
If she doesn't have armor, the chances of Lonna killing her is much more likely. Two well-placed arrows would probably be enough to take Cregga down, let's say one through the neck and another near the heart. (Or maybe straight through the eye. That'd do it.)


It's hard for this fight because it really depends on the distance the two begin fighting at. In other matches it's fairly easy to assume the setting of the fights because they're pretty close quarters. In this, however, we're talking about two entirely different distances. In close range, Cregga would win with or without armor, paws down. At longer range, Lonna would definitely kill Cregga without armor, but would likely only be able to immobilize her with armor, and then he can go in for the kill.





Have I ever mentioned that I like this topic?