Rose of Noonvale - Sue?

[Tiria Wildlough]

So...the question. Personally, I think yes. No one disliked her or showed any signs of doing so. (not counting the vermin.) Also, she was a great singer, and gorgeously beautiful. I wasn't sad when she died. *shrugs*

[James Gryphon]

Well, while those things are normally conducive to Sue-dom, the fact is that those positive traits aren't as hard to come by in the Redwall series as they are elsewhere, and she isn't superb or even above average at the most important skill-set in the series -- fighting.

Think about it -- are there any female protagonists who aren't good singers, or who aren't at least somewhat attractive? I'm going to take a guess and say that there aren't many, and that means that while Rose might be the best at those skills, they're still skills that are possessed by most female protagonists -- she doesn't have a monopoly on that.

As the romantic interest for Martin, it isn't unreasonable for her to have a lot of natural charisma, but she doesn't have too many skills outside of that, and I think that balances her out -- just like it does Cornflower in Redwall, and Tess Churchmouse in Mattimeo.

Now, if she was not only gorgeous and a good singer, but, say, also as talented with the sword as Martin, then we would have a problem. I think there are characters that fit this mold, as I've mentioned before, like Melanda MacBurl and, well, unfortunately, your namesake. Mariel also gets dangerously close to this in some ways, since she has more pure combat talent than almost every other protagonist in the series, but that's somewhat balanced out by her negative personality traits.

[Taggerung The Otter]

So...the question. Personally, I think yes. No one disliked her or showed any signs of doing so. (not counting the vermin.) Also, she was a great singer, and gorgeously beautiful. I wasn't sad when she died. *shrugs*

how did she die again

[KaiTheDog]

So...the question. Personally, I think yes. No one disliked her or showed any signs of doing so. (not counting the vermin.) Also, she was a great singer, and gorgeously beautiful. I wasn't sad when she died. *shrugs*

how did she die again

In the book, Badrang threw her into a wall, which caused A) a severe concussion B) a broken neck or C) a severed spinal cord.
In the cartoon, Badrang ran her through with Martin's sword.

[Lutra]

Interesting perspectives from all of you.  I don't recall Rose in either the book or the tv series having any particular flaw to the point that she cannot be considered perfect or a "sue".  Her brother, Brome definitely had character flaws and was brash and disobedient (how he ended up in Marshank) but Rose, and even to a point, some of Noonvale it seems they can do no wrong.

[Folgrimeo]

I'm gonna say Rose was a little like a Mary Sue just in that she seemed a little unbelievable (primarily with her convenient eagle screeches and singing ability), which is apparently enough for me to vote for the Sue option. Guess I didn't want the heroes to escape so easily. ...and I didn't see the "sort of" option, darn. Dotti from "Lord Brocktree" also seemed Sue-ish in that she could speak perfect molespeech for no reason, but this topic's about Rose.

[Redwall Musician]

Dotti from "Lord Brocktree" also seemed Sue-ish in that she could speak perfect molespeech for no reason, but this topic's about Rose.

That was about Dotti's only convenient quality. But it was kinda a pointless skill, since the moles liked her anyways. You can see what I said about Dotti in the Least Favorite Hero topic.

[Firewall978]

I know this may be kind of stupid of me, but what IS a Sue?

[KaiTheDog]

I know this may be kind of stupid of me, but what IS a Sue?

I think this link should help you  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Sue

[Nightfire]

Hey, notice that Dotti said that she was taught molespeech by Blunn from when she was a harebabe. I'm sure I'd speak fluent Russian if I was taught it from infancy, even though I'm 100% American in New York.

[Captain Tammo]

I don't really think of her as a sue... I'm not us why though. Just she did have flaws to her like ooh I don't know, getting brutaly killed by Badrang?

[Lutra]

Just she did have flaws to her like ooh I don't know, getting brutaly killed by Badrang?

Getting killed isn't a flaw....its unfortunate.   If Rose had a flaw, Mr. Jacques never led onto what it was.

[Tiria Wildlough]

Mary Sue stories—the adventures of the youngest and smartest ever person to graduate from the academy and ever get a commission at such a tender age. Usually characterized by unprecedented skill in everything from art to zoology, including karate and arm-wrestling....She saves the day by her wit and ability, and, if we are lucky, has the good grace to die at the end, being grieved by the entire ship.

~from Wikipedia article on Mary Sues.

[Icefire]

She had her flaws, they just weren't major. For example, you see a tad bit of headstrong-ness when she went against her father's wishes to go back with Martin. You can even see it a little when she went to search for her brother who had gotten in an argument with their father before running away. Also, as others have said, she wasn't really a warrior. She could handle a sling ok, but she wasn't really strong or skilled when it came to fighting.

[Melody]

I noticed that all of Brian's Characters had at least one flaw or more, not one of his good characters are perfect, (taggerung may be an exception, but he did have a few, one for being too soft on evil). that is what makes a good book, the good guys are not perfect, they still make mistakes.

About Rose, she also got into an argument about the Merdop with Martin because she got mad.