Redwall's "Gray" Characters

[Skalrag of Marshank]

Sorry. I just love foxes, and I've always thought of them as half good and half bad. It sounds weird when I say it, but it's what I think.

[Skalrag of Marshank]

Are there any other good vermin in the series besides Blaggut, Romsca, and Grubbage?

I wish they would have just ONE good fox! That's all I'm asking, just one!

[Lutra]

Sorry I don't remember any really gray-foxes.  Not in the literal sense.    Most foxes we see have been seers, which isn't evil in itself, if a bit deceitful.  Are they any more evil than your Blaggut, or Romsca that served evil forces, and didn't necessarily murder anyone?  Tough call.

[Log-a-Log]

Although Blaggut was good in the Bellmaker, who knows what terrible things he did with the searats before the Bellmaker. The same could be said with Grubbage and Romsca

[Tiria Wildlough]

I can't imagine Grubbage doing anything really bad.

[Nightfire]

I think that Jeefra counts as a neutral character. He wasn't good, but then again, he wasn't bad. Even when he was helping to attack Pandion Piketalon, then he wanted nothing to do with it. He was just too scared of his father to let the bird go.

[Muse]

One Nightfire, I agree that Jeefra was not evil, but he was kindof disgusting. He really was a wimp.
Two Ive noticed how a lot of people confuse evil. Evil does not mean with Cluny, or Sawney, or Kurda, but just evil. So yeah, Id consider the fox in LB evil.

[Taggerung_of_Redwall]

Two Ive noticed how a lot of people confuse evil. Evil does not mean with Cluny, or Sawney, or Kurda, but just evil. So yeah, Id consider the fox in LB evil.

Could you rephrase that?
I'm not understanding it.
I think you're saying something about the nature of evil in Redwall, correct?

[Sheep-From-The-Red-Hill]

^I think what he is trying to say is that you don't have to be some heinous war lord that murders for fun to be considered evil.

[Muse]

Yeah basically Im saying that evil or good for hat matter does not mean on the Abbeys side, pr the vermin horde. Blod Apis? Evil.

[Lutra]

^ However, that's not how it appears in Redwall.  The good are on the side of the Abbey, rarely ever on the side of the vermin.  The evil are on the sides of the vermin, never with the Abbey.  While I'm sure some would classify some of those naughty dibbuns as evil (  ) its just not so.  The closest you probably ever get to breaking this case is with Veil.

[Redwall Musician]

Maybe it's just me, but Deyna and Veil seemed a bit backwards. Deyna was a "goodbeast" raised by vermin, yet he never showed signs of ever being influenced by the evil around him. Veil on the other hand was raised by goodbeast, but just because he was a vermin he was bad.

I know that was a little random.

[Taggerung_of_Redwall]

I think their the same scenario. Both were raised out of their alignment, and both became what they would be.
I think Veil isn't bad because he's a vermin so much as he's a vermin because he's bad. That's the way Snowfur looks at Redwall, and I'd have to concur.
I seriously think Jacques put Redwall (the original book, that is) together on those grounds, though strayed from it with a few characters.

[Ciaran Galedeep]

^ If we're going to consider a split among some species as some good, some bad, depending on the situation and story, where does that leave Mr. Jacques' comment that the goodies are good, and the baddies are bad?  Apparently there are some species that don't follow that rule!

Let's not forget about other species. Captain Snow hunted both mice and shrews, but gave all that up after Matthias killed Asmodeus. Although this could be construed as a kind of "Heel Face Turn" moment.

Owls aren't really represented in Redwall and the two examples we have--Snow and Sir Harry, these are good owls (Snow after the deal), so does this imply the owls are always on the good side too?  You would have to say given the examples, owls are part of the good side and don't munch on mice. :p

This wasn't an easy question to discuss because there's many ways of focusing on who represents which piece of the puzzle.  I agree with a lot I am reading.  I can see the point that Verdauga might be the better representation of a gray character than Gingivere because he would listen and choose fates between the extreme suggestions by his son and daughter.  Its been a while since I've actually read Mossflower, so I only recalled bits a pieces of the whole thing.

Two other owls were Boldred (MTW) very good, and the screech owl that lived on mount batpit (well lets just say was not so nice)

[Dannflower Reguba]

Uhhh... What about the searat from the Bellmaker that eventually becomes a carpenter?